Dwarven Stronghold - a community effort

[Darraketh]

Just a thought.

The "Stronghold" is a physical structure so I am assuming that we want to have the entire thing mapped out. With that in mind we could build it in pieces.

Room - What's it called?
Purpose - What's this room for?
Significance - Is it a particularly important from an PC standpoint. i.e. Adventure hooks; infiltrate the Dwarven Stronghold to recover object X, wrongly accused and escaping from Dwarven Stronghold, etc. Is it critical to the functioning of the stronghold or does it just mean a lot to the dwarves?
Physical Description[/] - Where's the door? What's in here? etc.
Occupants - Who's in here, when and why?

For a stronghold of 50-75,000 there will be a lot of rooms. A good bit of the final document will consist of such descriptions.

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We need an outline.
Introduction - The why and wherefore of the project.
Ch. 1 Social Structure, Clans
Ch. 2 Religion
Ch. 3 Economics
Ch. 4 Military
Ch. 5 Imporant Persons profiles
Ch. 6 The Stronghold (physical description & maps)
Ch. 7 History
Ch. 8 PrCs, monster stats, artifacts

The order is insignificant at this point but the division is significant. So what I wrote above re. rooms would come under chapter 6. A structure of this sort would help the project.

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One last sugestion. We need a name for the Stronghold. If you start a "Name the Dwarven Stronghold" thread in the General Discussion Forum with a link to this thread you would generate additional interest and possibly more contributors.

Personally I have a suggestion but that would be unfair due to my proven Dwarven naming prowess. lol

 

[Jon Potter]

More ideas

I still like the idea of dwarves using subterranean lizards as their beasts of burden

I don't know... It just doesn't fit with the dwarven concept in my head (it seems too nasty, somehow - more befitting goblins than dwarves). But it is MY head and MY concept, so there's no reason that others can't love the idea.

I like the idea of the Rothe as a source of meat but don't forget the versatility of the llama as a source of food, clothing and as a beast of burden.

My first thought was mountain goat/big horn sheep, but I think that llamas fill that same ecological niche, so there's no reason it couldn't be llamas. Sheep, you'll note yield the same three benefits: food, clothing, and a beast of burden. But either way, big horn sheep or llamas; it just shouldn't be both.

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One fundamental question to ask is: why is the stronghold located where it is? Settlements are located near the resources necessary to support them (ie., water, food, etc.) and to serve some purpose (economic, military, etc.). With the noted dwarven tendency toward pragmatism, I think this would be even more likely.

So why here? The possible answers will color the very nature of the stronghold.
Is it located over an abundant mine? If so, what is mined there? Are the mines nearing depletion?
Does it guard an area of rare dwarven vulnerablity on a trade route or a hostile border? Or was it built to guard against the-threat-from-below?
Is it an important religious site? If so, to which of the three preposed religious sects (gods, nature, ancestor) is it important?
Is it a trade center with the lowlanders? If so, are the trade partners human? Halfling? Elves?
I think that answering this most basic question could get the ball rolling in some direction.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

Since we know that dwarves tend to settle in the mountains, we have to assume it's for ore and defense. Which leaves food as their biggest vulnerability.

I can see dwarves trading "protection" to the low-land settlements, who provide food for them, but that's not 100% satisfactory to their needs.

No matter how you slice it, at some point they know that they'll need to close the doors on the outside and be self-sufficient.

Or do they simply keep themselves X-months worth of siege supplies?

But neither are bighorn sheep. They can't take them off the hillsides, either. There's no way to raise herd animals underground (and I'm not happy with the lizard concept either).

I acknowledge I'm throwing out more questions than answers...

Wulf

 

[Acmite]

Re: Dwarven Military

Since we've all sort of agreed that most dwarves will serve a good portion of their lives in a military capacity. let me ask a question about traditional dwarven weapons.

My question is simple: WHY? Why do dwarves gravitate to certain weapons?


1) Picks. Again, pragmatism. They're going to spend a lot of time with picks anyway. And yet, when I think of pick fighters, it's usually in the hands of a silly gnome.

2) Spears. In a narrow tunnel, where it is impossible to get to the sides or rear, a dwarven spear hedge would be formidable indeed-- especially if the front couple of ranks are immovable dwarven defenders! I very much like the idea of a dwarven military with big blocks of crossbowmen, phalanxes of spearmen at the core, and axe wielding skirmishers throughout.

Wulf

To be blunt, this is kinda creepy. My plan for the Dwarven Rangers was to have them dual wield heavy and light picks. My plan for the druids was for them to wield spears of some sort. It's nice to know I'm not the only one who thought picks should be an archetypal weapon for dwarves. My idea for the Rangers was for them to be the first defense against "what lurks below", and it makes sense that they might do a little mineral exploration while they are down there. Maybe.

 

[Acmite]

Since we know that dwarves tend to settle in the mountains, we have to assume it's for ore and defense. Which leaves food as their biggest vulnerability.

No matter how you slice it, at some point they know that they'll need to close the doors on the outside and be self-sufficient.

Or do they simply keep themselves X-months worth of siege supplies?

But neither are bighorn sheep. They can't take them off the hillsides, either. There's no way to raise herd animals underground (and I'm not happy with the lizard concept either).
Wulf

One option is for Druids to handle a lrage portion of those responsibilities. My original intention was for Druids to serve as the siege weapons/counter-siege weapons. With a focus on spells and abilities that affect stone, they would serve a valuable role in: engineering, architecture, mining, defense, etc. I was going to have them eschew most of the plant abilities. But, the point Wulf (and others) raise above regarding food has caused me to wonder if the druids could serve a larger role in the community. By being the group responsible for setting up the potential self-sustainability of the community, they could easily be one of the more powerful factions/guilds/gropups within the community. This is a significant change from my original intention, but what do you guys think?

BTW, I like the Bighorn sheep. It's inventive, and has a unique flavour.
I don't particularly care for the subterranean lizard idea....but I like the idea of some kind of dwarven cavalry. Just not lizards.

 

[MooseHB]

Something I can do

I've been lurking here for a while, really interested in helping out, but not knowing what I could do. I think I might have some prowess in the area of Chapter 5, in helping to create the distinctive inhabitants of the setting. So I would offer now my assistance with that. I also agree that it is not a point of importance just yet. There are other issues to be decided first.

For a name of the place, "Stoneheart" and "Rockheart" popped into my mind, and though I think these two offerings suck, they may be a good jumping-off point to something much better.

 

[handforged]

whereto, whyfor, and how

Defense against something has been brought up several times as an option for the purpose of the stronghold. This could be the defense against somethgin form below, or keeping something from coming down out of the mountains to face the flatlanders. Why would dwarves want to do this? They like the people(possibly), they like the food(possibly), they are nice people(possibly). Either way they are keeping something contained. Are they possibly keepig things out as well. Could they be protecting the last defensive point for Dwarves of all kind? Perhaps there is religious significance? What if the stronghold was built in the original anvil, the mountain on which the rest of the world was forged?

Wulf, I love the ideas of the Dwarven porcupine phalanx with Dwarven Defender frontline and support.

Acmite, I think the idea of dwarven rangers probing not only as protection, but also an mining prospectors is very nice. The druids could maintain groves of underground food plants to support the stronghold in times of need.

In general I like the idea of bighorn sheep as well as some lizards, but what about another option...

tamed bulettes!

These beasts would be great for riding if they could be convinced not to eat their riders. They could also be used as beasts of burden in the mines, and as burrowers could help make new tunnels.

~hf

 

[handforged]

naming

as far as naming goes, how about Hergeddin.

~hf

 

[Darraketh]

More thoughts

I've always viewed dwarves as sort of short Klingons. Not mean and nasty but gruff, spartan and bound by honor. Dwarves are industrious and accustomed to hardship and hard labor.
They favor living underground. In this enviroment most resources are scarce. This has lead them to be conservative and practical, considering necessity as the deciding factor in all things.

Dwarves have a sickness. The love of gold. Yes they prize gems, silver, mithril and other precious treasures of the earth but they love gold. Some say it is a curse of the gods. None know for sure. But this desire drives them in all they do.

They have been known to abandon a stronghold when the gold mines played out leaving behind untapped veins of other precious metals. However they are the finest miners and have a knack for locating veins of gold that they can mine for many generations.

They are militaristic and defensive by nature. They are extremely jealous of their hoards of gold. They view all non-dwarves with distrust and assume that these outsiders are plotting to steal their gold!

Hoards are communal and are controlled and guarded by a clan. Each clan has a hoard. The larger it is the more prestige and power a given clan is likely to wield. Flow of gold among the clans is a part of everyday life. Gold is moved from one clan to another for all manner of reasons with each clan attempting to assemble the largest hoard.

Dwarven settlements are defensive by nature. Dwarves will defend their hoards to the death. A clan that has lost it's hoard has been grieviously dishonored. Other dwarves will look down on them often ostracizing them until they have redeemed themselves by establishing a new hoard or preferably regaining what was lost.

It is interesting to note that dwarves never gamble with gold. They may see fit to gamble with any other precious metals or gems but never gold.

If there is any other substance that would be highly valued by dwarves it would have to be iron and the steel that is made from it. This of course is dictated by dwarven pragmatism as it is what they construct weapons, tools and implements of daily life.

 

[Darraketh]

Doh!

Terraism posted a excellent outline on the first page!

I'm losing track of that which has gone before.

I think we need a master document. If someone posts an idea that has merit we put it in the master document. It doesn't matter that it may be edited, changed or dropped. What matters is that we have everything in one place. We'll all be able to see the gaps and get an idea of how it is all progressing and the direction we are/need to be heading.

Assign it a revision number so we know we are all working with the same/latest version.

This requires an editor or keeper of the master document. This will be the only person, and there should be only one, who can update and float a new revision.

Submissions can be emailed directly to the editor or posted to this thread in which case the editor will have to glean the information from the posts. Either way it is a cut and paste job.

Initially the document will be a collection of notes, divided according to the outline but otherwise lacking continuity. That will change as we fill in the blanks and polish the prose.

The document itself should be passed as text or at the very least rtf so everyone can open it.

We should keep track of who came up with which idea so that we can go back to that person if we need them to further develope it. And for the list of credits especially if they solely developed a section of the work.

With that said I nominate BillyBeanbag editor! Do I hear a second! lol