Dwarven Stronghold - a community effort

[Darraketh]

I haven't seen the Yahoo group yet either. Frankly I was thinking along the lines of a citybook also. Furthermore I was hoping we could do it all right here.

This thread has had more than 1200 views! For every person that participates in this project there are probably 20 more that just want to watch a group of industrious dwarves going about their business of building a stronghold!

Doing the project here we are supporting EN World by providing interesting developing content. And doing it here in the open we can benefit from the ideas of any late comers who stumble upon the thread.

These boards allow you to attach a pic or a zip file too. I don't see why we can't make a go of it here.

BillyBeanbag this is your baby so I'd hate to see you withdraw your support.

My suggestions:

• Free final product in pdf.
  
• Citybook format with maps, pictures, details on social structure including guilds, clans and societies, basic economics, major personalities and adventure hooks.
  
• Open contributions/suggestions/submissions with the final selection by editorial committee as appointed by our founder BillyBeanbag.
  
• We do it in this thread, right here for the benefit/pleasure/entertainment of those who visit EN World and these boards.

Well that's my opinion.
Peace.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

Billy (and guys...)

I didn't mean to kick up a storm here. There really aren't more than a couple of posts in the Yahoo group, just enough for me to see a trend to be concerned about. And again, I'm certainly not saying there is anything wrong with the crunchy bits. We ALL love working on them-- it's a testament to 3e's portability. They're fun.

I'm not saying the project is heading in the wrong direction, it just seemed to be heading in a direction that I, personally, should probably keep at a distance.

If the project stays here, I may be able to drop in from time to time with Open Content from my own work-- yeah, crunchy bits! But I certainly wouldn't want any ownership questions to arise from stuff that is (a) very similar to things I am working on (b) planned for publication and (c) done behind closed doors.

Billy, this is your baby. You're King Under the Mountain! Take the reigns and tell everybody where you want this to go, and those who can participate will, and those who can't, won't. There's no need for hard feelings or abandoning the project before we lay the first stone.

Wulf

 

[Jon Potter]

Possible Ideas/Answers

I'm a first time poster here, so forgive me if I don't seem quite as board-savvy as others.

Scrollworks Press released an article by Christian Walker on "Dwarven Domesticity" that touches many of the points that have been raised here by handforged and some others, such as: what do the dwarves eat, how much do they produce themselves and how much must they obtain through trade with lowlanders. The article might be helpful to get some ideas flowing and is available as a free download on the Scrollworks website.

http://www.scrollworkspress.com/domesticity.pdf

BillyBeanbag asked about dwarven names. Beenox, Inc. produces a freeware product called Coldstone Name Generator. It allows the user to easily create lists of name segments and then assembles those segments into random combinations. The Name Generator comes with a stock file for generating dwarven names, yielding results like: Doignus, Minar, Glasil, Roignar, and Rusur. Using the naming files that came with WotC's Character Generator, I created some Coldstone scripts to generate either male or female dwarven names: Durgar, Wharto, Belfik, Bofic, and Bifto or Barga, Hlis, Liftnal, Brottga, and Ebnal. I don't know if it's available for the PC, but a Macintosh version is avaiable at the following link:

http://www.beenox.com/

I'm also happy to create some quick lists of a few hundred dwarven names if anyone needs them.

In my campaign one of the dwarven citadels is located near volcanic activity. Many of their forges are "lava-powered" (easily able to sustain the extremely high temperatures necessary to work mithril and adamantine) and they have an extensive heating system of vents that warm various parts of the delve. Because of their special forges, smiths from this settlement are able to produce the finest arms and armor and their goods are in great demand throughout the known world.

How about this idea as well? Instead of using more traditional beast of burden, the dwarves use domesticated mountain goats and bighorn sheep which have an obvious advantage in alpine climes. Plus they're oh so tasty in a pinch.

Just a couple of ideas, but maybe they would fit somewhere into the stronghold's layout.

 

[Darraketh]

Re: Possible Ideas/Answers

I'm a first time poster here, so forgive me if I don't seem quite as board-savvy as others.

No problem, welcome aboard!

Scrollworks Press released an article by Christian Walker on "Dwarven Domesticity" that touches many of the points that have been raised here by handforged and some others, such as: what do the dwarves eat, how much do they produce themselves and how much must they obtain through trade with lowlanders. The article might be helpful to get some ideas flowing and is available as a free download on the Scrollworks website.

http://www.scrollworkspress.com/domesticity.pdf

Thanks! It's great. I like the idea of the Rothe as a source of meat but don't forget the versatility of the llama as a source of food, clothing and as a beast of burden.

In my campaign one of the dwarven citadels is located near volcanic activity. Many of their forges are "lava-powered" (easily able to sustain the extremely high temperatures necessary to work mithril and adamantine) and they have an extensive heating system of vents that warm various parts of the delve. Because of their special forges, smiths from this settlement are able to produce the finest arms and armor and their goods are in great demand throughout the known world.

Great ideas! I would think that dwarves, having lived in mountains and caverns for thousands of years, would develop all manner of ingenious ways to get the most out of life.

How about this idea as well? Instead of using more traditional beast of burden, the dwarves use domesticated mountain goats and bighorn sheep which have an obvious advantage in alpine climes. Plus they're oh so tasty in a pinch.

Yeah... dwarves don't care much for the horse, ox or any other large animal that could be used in that role. And whatever creature they would use must be accustomed to the mountains.

Just a couple of ideas, but maybe they would fit somewhere into the stronghold's layout.

Keep 'em coming. Even if we never manage to hammer this thing out I am sure we can all put forth a few ideas that each of us can take home.

 

[Emiricol]

I still like the idea of dwarves using subterranean lizards as their beasts of burden

 

[Acmite]

Wulf = Smart

I tried to post this earlier but the boards were acting all wonky.

I agree with Wulf entirely.

This are the things I think we need to work on to get this project moving forward. I think before we all start working on the more detailed aspects we need a absic framework in place, such as: Population (are we decided on 50-75k?), Economy, Clan structure (a different focus for each clan? Every clan is multi-disciplinary? Different strengths/weaknesses/political or military might? How many clans? Etc), Geography, Purpose (why is this settlement here?).

Anybody got any basic ideas? I would imagine the backbone of the economy would be mining and smithing, but we could always try something a little offbeat. I think it would be interesting to have one of the clans devoted to brewing, or something similar.

I'm tired, so I'm going to sleep now....

Talk to you all later.

 

[handforged]

Foundations

I agree that we need to get a basic framework down for the city first.

Here are my suggestions:

Population: 50,000 or thereabouts

Magic Number: 7 everything in groups of seven

Economy: Exports include ore, refined metal, forged items, alcohol Imports include grains, some vegetable, fabrics

Clans: Multidisciplinary, but with a focus in each clan (seven)

Guilds: Would oversee the various professions (seven)

Religion: Divine, Natural, and Ancestral (I know it's only three, oh well)

Military: Special divisions for surface and subterranean fighting, as well as versatile core group

Much of this oulls together things that people have been suggesting one at a time. Several purposes have been proposed, but I will stay out of that for a while.

~hf

 

[Dave G]

Grrr... I typed this really long and eloquent post detailing the issues at hand and how I plan to try and tackle them, and my computer locked up without my hitting send...

So here's a less eloquent condensed version.

I would like this project to be a community project above all else, and as such I think it behooves us to try and keep this as an open content document. Bearing this in mind, that doesn't mean we use everything submitted, there will still be an evaluation process that will decide if the proposal fits with our mission.

The Yahoo group will be a great companion to the work that goes on through this thread and subsequent incarnations of this thread. If for no other reason than the file storage and e-mail list to communicate with other project partners. However, I would like to keep the discussion open for the community to read and comment upon, so we keep our fingers on the pulse of those whom this project is for.

I think we have gotten too far afield in our discussion of publication. I jumped on the bandwagon saying "Yeah, that'd be cool!" but the fact is we are worried way too much about this way too early in the game. Personally I would like to see this as a free document, but if any money is made, that it go directly to EN World!

To keep my end up as an administrator of sorts, I am going to try and strike up some conversations with other community projects of a similar nature, as well as some of the d20 publishers. Who better to help me keep my head about the business ends of things than those who do it... I'd be willing to bet some of them would be willing to at least give us some advice.

We need to build the foundation of this Dwarven Stronghold before we start picking trim color... The suggestions an conversations that have come up so far are great, and I want to encourage you to keep discussion going... In my opinion our priorities at this moment are: Government, Clans, religions and guilds... I think these areas will cover the political geography of the place so we can then begin tailoring our physical geography and begin filling in the blanks.

Would anyone be opposed to the formation of small groups so that we could have a military section or a guild section, to help us stay focused and on task...

This is going to be a great project if we all keep our patience (myself included) and stay on task until we are done.

Please let me know what you think, either in this thread or via e-mail at billybeanbag@yahoo.com

 

[handforged]

Task groups

I would like to be a part of the Religion task group. I know that some people had already picked specific things to organize, but since we are sort stepping back, I think we should regroup as well, at least that is how I interpret what Billy said.

~hf

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

Dwarven Military

Since we've all sort of agreed that most dwarves will serve a good portion of their lives in a military capacity. let me ask a question about traditional dwarven weapons.

My question is simple: WHY? Why do dwarves gravitate to certain weapons?

Hammers-- this is a no brainer, it's a tip of the hat to Morad... err, excuse me, I mean the Forge-Father.

Crossbows-- a traditional dwarven weapon. Is it because they are too short to weild longbows properly? Is a crossbow an inherently superior weapon in a narrow tunnel with a low ceiling?

Axes-- Why axes? This one continues to stump me. Because dwarves are pragmatic about everything, there must be a reason. It doesn't double as a tool for them, unless we suppose that they are out clear-cutting the mountainsides from time to time.

I once suggested two possibilities:

1) The axe focuses a great deal of power on a narrow edge. If dwarves are shorter and fighting in tighter quarters-- and with shorter arms-- it may give them a physics advantage over swords.

2) I kind of like this one: It requires less metal to craft than a sword. They may have no compunction about clearing a forest to make axe-handles, but they would think twice about their bottom line-- ORE-- when it comes to weapons.

Finally, I'd like to ask the group what they think about two weapons that SHOULD be iconic dwarven weapons, but don't seem to have caught on:

1) Picks. Again, pragmatism. They're going to spend a lot of time with picks anyway. And yet, when I think of pick fighters, it's usually in the hands of a silly gnome.

2) Spears. In a narrow tunnel, where it is impossible to get to the sides or rear, a dwarven spear hedge would be formidable indeed-- especially if the front couple of ranks are immovable dwarven defenders! I very much like the idea of a dwarven military with big blocks of crossbowmen, phalanxes of spearmen at the core, and axe wielding skirmishers throughout.

Wulf