Dwarves don't sell novels

[WayneLigon]

What sort of genuine fan of fantasy would want robots (warforged) and psychic powers (psionics) in their novels and games? Tragically, D&D has been entrusted to sci-fi wannabes.

Lessee now. I think we can start with the millions of fans of the Deryni books, the Vlad Taltos books, the Witch World books, the Valdemar books, all of which are major works of fantasy that heavily feature psionics. God forbid we include The Dying Earth, which is a major influence for Col_Playdoh, as a work of fantasy since it's our own world in the far, far future.

Man, what in the world are you going to do when the current generation being raised on anime and manga grows up and starts writing and producing art, books and RPG's based on the kind of genre-breaking and genre-mixing you see there? Are you going to be stuck in the basement spread like Smaug on a pile of Conan reprints or are you going to join the rest of us who can move past a lock-step genre definition?

 

[Rodrigo Istalindir]

What we really need is not another DL novel, but a Wulf Ratbane novel.

SnarkQuest(tm)?

I must confess that after DDO, I do tend to think 'Wulf' when I hear 'dwarf'. Partly, too, because I've had a dwarven character named Hogar Orcsbane for years, so I think the 'bane' part had me pre-disposed.

Frankly, I don't care who the main character is so long as the books are good, but I'm afraid I gave up on gamer fiction a long, long time ago.

 

[Rodrigo Istalindir]

Man, what in the world are you going to do when the current generation being raised on anime and manga grows up and starts writing and producing art, books and RPG's based on the kind of genre-breaking and genre-mixing you see there? Are you going to be stuck in the basement spread like Smaug on a pile of Conan reprints or are you going to join the rest of us who can move past a lock-step genre definition?

Yes, probably. Can't stand anime.

 

[rounser]

Are you going to be stuck in the basement spread like Smaug on a pile of Conan reprints or are you going to join the rest of us who can move past a lock-step genre definition?

Sounds like you need a game that isn't D&D though - that's the real problem here, too many jaded folks who can't move on to another game, and so are attempting to warp D&D into a pulp noir sci-fi paranormal mutant ninja turtle kitchen sink mess. From that perspective, you're the ones who need to move on - D&D doesn't meet your needs, and having it turn into some cross between Indiana Jones and Shadowrun, with extra added dragonsauce on everything would? Sheesh. Gimme Conan over that any day...at least his genre is coherent.

 

[WayneLigon]

Sheesh. Gimme Conan over that any day...at least his genre is coherent.

Or did you forget the aliens he meets? REH, like most of the fantasy writers of his day, mixed in some modernesque stuff as well.

 

[Zander]

Lessee now. I think we can start with the millions of fans of the Deryni books, the Vlad Taltos books, the Witch World books, the Valdemar books, all of which are major works of fantasy that heavily feature psionics.

LOL. Long after those books are forgotten, there'll still be legions of fantasy fans reading LotR and the Conan stories.

 

[rounser]

Or did you forget the aliens he meets? REH, like most of the fantasy writers of his day, mixed in some modernesque stuff as well.

And of course, just like all the psionics arguments, the exception justifies dismissing the rule completely, yes?

It's a matter of scope. There's cthulhu mythos elements in the odd Conan story as well, or so I gather, but it's not a core theme of the setting. When aliens invading becomes an everyday occurrence on Hyboria, with Conan fighting greys as often as picts, then you might have an argument. Until then, it's the "Greyhawk is the wild west because Murlynd has six-shooters" argument - one that crumbles under more than trivial scrutiny.

D&D encapsulates all manner of freaky anachronistic things in small doses. For some of you, in large doses - but to suggest that the other side should "move on" is just a matter of perspective. "If you're jaded with D&D's themes, maybe look for another game" is just as valid as "If you don't like pervasive anachronisms in your D&D, either change or get left behind."

 

[Infernal Teddy]

I see the whole thing as "D&D is a toolbox, and WIzards (and the rest of the d20 Industry) are just handing me tools to use or discard as wished". If you don't like Warforged, dont use them. But don't come screaming just because WotC is using Psionics (Something Gary built into AD&D 1st as an optional system. Which is what the XPH is, too).

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Are you insinuating that your Dwarven Hatfields are legity because they're sort of from the mountains? No dwarven stereotyping there...

I wanted to go with a classic sort of campaign setting -- dwarves, dragons, kobolds, goblins, a human-run feudal state -- but I wanted to change it up so that it wasn't just The Hobbit leftovers.

So I decided to go with a different mountain culture, one I'm reasonably familiar with and which I thought fit in well with D&D dwarves.

If you've never had a barefoot dwarf spitting tobacco while sharpening his axe on a porch and wearing a standed pair of overalls, I submit your dwarves have been trapped in too narrow of a stereotype, since from where I'm sitting, this fits perfectly and is a natural outgrowth of the standard tropes.

 

[Dragonbait]

I wanted to go with a classic sort of campaign setting -- dwarves, dragons, kobolds, goblins, a human-run feudal state -- but I wanted to change it up so that it wasn't just The Hobbit leftovers."

No. This is wrong. You are missing the warforged, guns, and all other new devices that are in D&D. Whizbang, You need to get with the times and accept that those old ideas and concepts are no longer viable!

If you've never had a barefoot dwarf spitting tobacco while sharpening his axe on a porch and wearing a standed pair of overalls, I submit your dwarves have been trapped in too narrow of a stereotype, since from where I'm sitting, this fits perfectly and is a natural outgrowth of the standard tropes.

Another mistake, Whizbang. These do not sound like Tolkein-esq dwarves. If you want this, you should not be playing D&D, because we don't want those kind of ideas in our game!
Looks like you are damned if you do, and damned if you don't.

If I have learned anything from this second page, it's that D&D is NOT your game (your, as in people in general, not just Whizbang's). It's someone else's, and they want you to know that you are not playing it correctly.

..Now.. Um, so why are there no books featuring dwarves?

PS: My apologies to Whizbang for using his post to make a rant that has nothing to do with him.