D&D 5E E15 Draft (Homebrew): 15 levels instead of 20.

[ezo]

For those who love tweaking here is the revised "E15" concept (started by @DND_Reborn) for 5E 2014. This is being presented "as is" for the 1st draft. There won't be major modifications, however.

The basic premise is to remove the ability score improvements from the class tables to the character level table, thereby compressing the 20 levels down to 15. You can continue playing after 15th level, gaining ASIs (or feats) every 30,000 xp, so your character can continue to grow in breadth. We don't recommend multiclassing with this concept, but you can certainly. If you do, you are limited to 15 total levels for your classes. (Well, you can do whatever you want to obviously, this is our limit if we allow it).

This means PCs will max out at 15 hit dice, and with the revised spellcasting progression stop with 7th level spells. Other class features generally stop at 15th level (like Sneak Attack +8d6), while some have modifier progressions to keep them equivalent to 20th level (such as Unarmored Movement +30 feet).

This only impacts classes, with the exception of our using critical damage instead of critical hits -- which obviously anyone could choose to ignore if they wanted to try adopting this concept. Unless otherwise noted, all class features remain unchanged (although you will get many at different levels).

Spoiler: Notable Changes

Here are the notable changes, which you will find in the document as well:

• Barbarians.Rage damage affects thrown weapons.
• Bards.Bards are half-casters (but with quicker spellcasting progression) and do not gain Expertise. They gain earlier magical secrets and a stronger Countermagic to replace Countercharm.
• Clerics.Maximum spell level is 7th. Destroy Undead is altered to deal damage. A new Channel Divinity (Rebuke Otherworldly) allows clerics to turn or destroy celestials, elementals, fey, and fiends.
• Druids.Maximum spell level is 7th. Druids have an additional Wild Shape improvement increasing the max CR to 2 and adding the monstrosity creature type to Wild Shape. Archdruid now allows extended duration for Wild Shape instead of unlimited uses.
• Fighter.Second Wind improves more with level. Champion has an altered Improved Critical and Superior Critical, and Eldritch Knight has a quicker spellcasting progression.
• Monk.Monks gain additional ki points.
• Paladin.Lay on Hands has improvements gained at higher levels and quicker spellcasting progression.
• Ranger.This class has numerous changes, along with quicker spellcasting progression. Most notable is damage to favored enemies, advantage on ability checks in favored terrains, more useful features moved to be gained at lower levels.
• Rogue.None. Arcane Trickster has a quicker spellcasting progression.
• Sorcerer.Sorcerers no longer have a spell list, but have random sources for their spells. Metamagics can now be applied to other casters and changed more often. Sorcerers gain additional sorcery points.
• Warlock.This class is now a half-caster (but with a faster spellcasting progression), but gains Pact Boon improvements. Eldritch Master allows changing of known invocations.
• Wizard.Maximum spell level is 7th. Signature spells are gained sooner along with a slightly earlier Spell Mastery.

Anyway, that's it. Cheers.



EDIT: I found the type-O for Sorcerer's Spell Source entry. Yes, you should roll a d20, not a d10, as the table uses results from 1-20.

 

[Horwath]

to keep characters diverse a little, I would keep the 5 feat slots, at levels 3,6,9,12,15 plus the 1st level optional(we always played that in 2014)

the the rest of the levels you could fill with bonus proficiency and expertise so no matter the class(or multiclass) you get something general at levels 2,4,5,7,8,10,11,13,14
maybe expertise at levels: 4,7,10,14. Everyone becomes expert in a few things given time. Expert classes just get more of it.
bonus skill proficiency at levels: 2,5,8,11,15. Trade skill proficiency for 3 tools/languages/weapons as an option.

one thing;
I like the extra slots for full casters instead of higher level spells.
had a similar idea some time back:

D&D (2024) - How to reign in full casters for 1D&D? Maybe remove 6th to 9th level spells as a Variant rule.

We can all agree that after 10th level, game breaks down in some places, and main reason is specific spells from 6th to 9th level. So, instead of 6th and 9th level spells(and spell slots), why not just give extra spell slots of 1st to 5th level for "full-casters" at levels 11-20? by using...

www.enworld.org

 

[ezo]

to keep characters diverse a little, I would keep the 5 feat slots, at levels 3,6,9,12,15 plus the 1st level optional(we always played that in 2014)

I could see this working either way. With fewer feats/ ASIs at lower levels, you really have to want the feat and make certain it represents your concept/goal well. Also, since you can continue play past 15th level, you have virtually unlimited ASI/feat access then.

Also, by keeping it with character levels, you could certainly award more feats/ASIs like you suggest if you want to without messing up the class features and their levels.

FWIW, we had a feat at level 1 originally, but (believe it or not) we are trying to keep this more RAW than our past homebrews.

the the rest of the levels you could fill with bonus proficiency and expertise so no matter the class(or multiclass) you get something general at levels 2,4,5,7,8,10,11,13,14
maybe expertise at levels: 4,7,10,14. Everyone becomes expert in a few things given time. Expert classes just get more of it.
bonus skill proficiency at levels: 2,5,8,11,15. Trade skill proficiency for 3 tools/languages/weapons as an option.

You get something at every level regardless of giving more. Either a class feature, access to higher level spells, improved proficiency, etc. and failing all of that you always get a hit dice.

one thing;
I like the extra slots for full casters instead of higher level spells.
had a similar idea some time back:

D&D (2024) - How to reign in full casters for 1D&D? Maybe remove 6th to 9th level spells as a Variant rule.

We can all agree that after 10th level, game breaks down in some places, and main reason is specific spells from 6th to 9th level. So, instead of 6th and 9th level spells(and spell slots), why not just give extra spell slots of 1st to 5th level for "full-casters" at levels 11-20? by using...

www.enworld.org

I remember that thread. Our reasoning was comparing total spell levels. In RAW you have 89 at 20th level, so just removing 8th and 9th level slots without restoring slots elsewhere warped that balance.

Even given more lower-level slots, the overall "power level" in terms of total spell leves is generally equal to or (more often) below RAW to 20 levels.

By allowing more slots (and those more spells) we are hoping there will be less reliance on cantrips and less reluctance to use spells when slots would otherwise be low.

One of our major concerns is the concept of having a number of known spells equal to your spell slots. So, a 15th level wizard will know two "default" spells (chosen from the class) and seven known 1st-level spells, six 2nd-level spells, five 3rd-level spells, etc. We'll see how well the players like the idea.

 

[TwoSix]

One of our major concerns is the concept of having a number of known spells equal to your spell slots. So, a 15th level wizard will know two "default" spells (chosen from the class) and seven known 1st-level spells, six 2nd-level spells, five 3rd-level spells, etc. We'll see how well the players like the idea.

I'll be honest, I'm not a giant fan of the default spells granted; I like the elegance of the "spells known" equaling the spell slots.

 

[ezo]

I'll be honest, I'm not a giant fan of the default spells granted;

To clarify: you don't like the concept or just the current spell selection (the purpose of my other thread, of course).

The current spell selection is just what we have until I can get more feedback (if I do) from the other thread.

The only reason we added it was we felt having only one or two spells known might be too much of a hinderance.

I like the elegance of the "spells known" equaling the spell slots.

Frankly, I really like it as well and I hope it sees some support.

TBH, the idea came to be based on what a new player (like 5 years ago now...) thought when he first played a spellcaster. He REALLY kept trying to make his prepared spells equal to his spell slots due to the table... instead of the level + spellcasting ability modifier RAW concept.

 

[TwoSix]

The only reason we added it was we felt having only one or two spells known might be too much of a hinderance.

Bah. Low level spellcasters just need to toughen up.

 

[ezo]

Bah. Low level spellcasters just need to toughen up.

Well, it isn't a huge deal since you jump to 4 1st-level known spells/slots at 2nd level... and by the time you reach, say 6th level, you have a spell progression of 5,4,3; so a total of 12 known spells--more than RAW in some cases.

Maybe we'll try it without the extra spells. Another option was you get bonus known spells according to your spellcasting ability modifier, sort of like the bonus spells for Clerics' Wisdom in AD&D?

 

[TwoSix]

Well, it isn't a huge deal since you jump to 4 1st-level known spells/slots at 2nd level...

Maybe we'll try it without the extra spells. Another option was you get bonus known spells according to your spellcasting ability modifier, sort of like the bonus spells for Clerics' Wisdom in AD&D?

All workable. Like I said, I'm coming at it as simply liking the symmetry of having one table determine both access and frequency of casting.

 

[Horwath]

Bah. Low level spellcasters just need to toughen up.

it isn't about toughen up.
it's about fun.

now, role play is as much fun as you make it, but combat as low level spellcaster is next to champion level of complexity.

and since halfcasters start with 2 spell slots right out of the gate with a lot of extra stuff, wizard should start with 4 spell slots at 1st level.

even if I trashed 2024 rangers, 1st level ranger is OP strong.
my new character, human ranger with Magic initiate Druid and Magic initiate Wizard.

6 castings of 1st level spells at level 1. and 4 cantrips.