log in or register to remove this ad

 

E6: The Game Inside D&D (new revision)

Status
Not open for further replies.

DogBackward

First Post
Why don't you just leave LA as it is, then allow it to be bought off? Even if you start at first level, you can allow LA. If you have LA +1, you start as a 1st level NPC class (Warrior, Expert, Adept, Aristocrat, Magewright from ECS). Once you hit level two, you become a 1st level PC class with LA +1.

If you have LA +2, you start as a 1st level Commoner. Once you hit level two, you become a 1st level NPC class with LA +1. Once you hit level three, you become a 1st level PC class with +2 LA.

You could extend this to allow LA +1 and +2 to start as NPC classes, and allow LA +3 and +4 to start as Commoners.

Then, once you hit ECL 6, you can spend xp to reduce your LA. 4000xp, +100xp per LA to reduce it by one step. So, to take LA +4 to +3 (and thus gain your third character level) would cost 8000xp. Then to go from +3 to +2 costs 7000xp, and you then gain your fourth character level. And so on until you're at level six like everybody else. If you started with a high LA, you'll be behind your buddies by several feats, and still at a lower power level at low levels.
 

log in or register to remove this ad

Shazman

First Post
I suppose that could work, but I like the reduced point buy better. It's simple and easy to use. Besides most of the races with an LA above +1 are going to be subject to DM approval even more so than other things. If you want to play a drow in a party of elves, that's probably going to be shot down because of possible interparty conflict issues, or even worse, playing a half-fiend in a party with a paladin and LG cleric. Even if you have a very lax DM that allows anything, you shouldn't be so much more powerful than PHB races that it throws the campaign out of wack. A half-dragon is still 2 points behind a human.
 
Last edited:

Ry

Explorer
One thing the multitude of discussions on the various boards has lead me to is a greater appreciation of the Lean Upward approach to feats, especially as it regards single-classed characters.

For example, I don't find it especially good that Int 18 characters can't take advantage of their 4th-level spell slot (not that I want to allow unrestricted 4th level spells, such as Reincarnation, but for metamagic purposes the ability to gain 0 4th-level spell slots has some appeal). Likewise, I agree that there should be the ability for the druid to turn into Large creatures; it's a signature Druid ability. I'm almost convinced that 6th level fighters should have the ability to take a pair of feats to be treated as 8th level fighters, although with no BAB advancement.

Note that these are just offshoots of the discussions and the feats I've re-read as the discussions have brought them up, not actual play.
 

Dragonblade275

First Post
rycanada said:
I'm almost convinced that 6th level fighters should have the ability to take a pair of feats to be treated as 8th level fighters, although with no BAB advancement.
I would definitely think that a 6th level Fighter in E6 should be able to get Improved Critical. Just changing the pre-req's from BAB+8 to Fighter 6th Level should be good.
 

Shazman

First Post
Yeah, I don't see why a Fighter 6 in E6 couldn't qualify for Improved Critical as well as Greater Weapon Focus and Specialization. Just make the prerequs Fighter 6 plus weapon specific feats lower in the Weapon Focus chain of feats. So the fighter 6 gets a total of +2 to hit and + 4 to damage with his chosen weapon, and has higher chance of crtting. The fighter 4/barbarian 2 still has a +3 to hit and +4 to damage (or +5 with a two-handed weapon) while raging and using his chosen weapon. It seems to balance things out so that a dip into barbarian isn't a no-brainer choice for every fighter.
 

Dragonblade275

First Post
I agree.

I think E6 might benefit from feats that encourage single classing over multi-classing. For instance, I think feats with a Pre-Req of Ranger 6th that allow abilities like: Woodland Stride and Swift Tracker to become available would be nice.

I'm planning to go through many of the classes and prestige classes and try and convert many class abilities into feats at some point in the future.
 

Kunimatyu

First Post
rycanada said:
One thing the multitude of discussions on the various boards has lead me to is a greater appreciation of the Lean Upward approach to feats, especially as it regards single-classed characters.

For example, I don't find it especially good that Int 18 characters can't take advantage of their 4th-level spell slot (not that I want to allow unrestricted 4th level spells, such as Reincarnation, but for metamagic purposes the ability to gain 0 4th-level spell slots has some appeal). Likewise, I agree that there should be the ability for the druid to turn into Large creatures; it's a signature Druid ability. I'm almost convinced that 6th level fighters should have the ability to take a pair of feats to be treated as 8th level fighters, although with no BAB advancement.

Note that these are just offshoots of the discussions and the feats I've re-read as the discussions have brought them up, not actual play.

I'm somewhat concerned that some of the Large forms (Lion, Dire Ape, Dire Wolf are the significant ones) will allow the Druid to be just as combat-effective as the fighters -- leaving the Druid with Small/Medium creatures means they're mostly on-par with fighters, but not completely.

I will also not be allowing 4th level spells (there's too many nasty ones, like Evard's, Solid Fog, and the like), though I may allow certain 4th level spells to be learned via feats and cast once a day (like your Restoration feat et al), in particular, spells like Wall of Fire (a classic), and perhaps Fear.

It's strange, but I can't find a spell anywhere that can frighten a single target over 5HD -- Fear can do it, but it's a big cone effect, so you'd think there'd be one somewhere.
 

green slime

First Post
Kunimatyu said:
I'm somewhat concerned that some of the Large forms (Lion, Dire Ape, Dire Wolf are the significant ones) will allow the Druid to be just as combat-effective as the fighters -- leaving the Druid with Small/Medium creatures means they're mostly on-par with fighters, but not completely.

I will also not be allowing 4th level spells (there's too many nasty ones, like Evard's, Solid Fog, and the like), though I may allow certain 4th level spells to be learned via feats and cast once a day (like your Restoration feat et al), in particular, spells like Wall of Fire (a classic), and perhaps Fear.

It's strange, but I can't find a spell anywhere that can frighten a single target over 5HD -- Fear can do it, but it's a big cone effect, so you'd think there'd be one somewhere.

Rycanada was talking about "for metmagic purposes", which I assume to mean the ability to cast an enlarged fireball, as opposed to actually gaining any real 4th level spells...
 

Matrix Sorcica

Adventurer
Daelkyr said:
For some reason, I felt inspired to try my own hand at a pdf for E6.

Not much, but here it is.

On a side note, love the idea, can't wait to test it out on my players.

But here's a question:

Is there any feat that will advance you skill cap after lvl 6? I play Eberron and would like to ensure that the Greater Dragonmark is available.
Create one that requires skill focus in the skill and lets your skill rank be considered 3 higher for the purpose of qualifying for other feats?
 

Ry

Explorer
Actually, there's a feat in Phil Reed's 101 More Feats called Skill Beyond Your Years, it's OGC. You pick a skill and it raises your max ranks in that skill from Level+3 to Level +5. This doesn't actually provide the 2 skill points, though, so an E6 character would have to choose Open Mind (for 5 points) and have 3 extra left over.
 

Cheiromancer

Explorer
I'm kinda puzzled by these attempts to break the level 6 ceiling (4th level spell slots, feats to increase skill rank caps, Improved Critical, large Wildshape, etc.) If you want to get access to level 7 or 8 abilities, allow level advancement at long intervals. If you are going to take away the most distinctive feature of E6 (a hard level limit), then why not be straightforward about it?
 

Ry

Explorer
Well, the argument that's rolling around in my head goes like this:

6th plus a bunch of feats is more powerful than 6th. Some class features that are slightly above the cutoff match with the power level of E6, but help by adding definition to some classes in a way that doesn't pop the top off of the power level.

Again, this is stuff rolling around in my mind.
 

Shazman

First Post
These adjustments would be necessary for a long term E6 campaign that has the characters facing increasingly difficult challenges. Eventually, standard feats aren't going to cut it. They will need feats that duplictate some (not all) higher level class abilities to prevail or the campaign will fall apart.
 

Kunimatyu

First Post
green slime said:
Rycanada was talking about "for metmagic purposes", which I assume to mean the ability to cast an enlarged fireball, as opposed to actually gaining any real 4th level spells...

That might work, though I think that the Sudden feats, plus (maybe) an Extra Sudden Spell that granted one additional use from the Sudden feat of your choice would be the best way to do it.

After thinking about it some more (though this is WAY house-rule territory), I think I'd allow a druid to transform into certain animals, but I'd do it via spells, so a 3rd level spell might allow a druid to transform into a Dire Wolf. I wouldn't allow spellcasting in this alternate forms, and the forms would be using the new polymorph subschool (ie. flip open the Monster Manual and use that creature's stats exactly), so that would probably decrease the power enough to allow some nice combat forms.
 

Kunimatyu

First Post
Shazman said:
These adjustments would be necessary for a long term E6 campaign that has the characters facing increasingly difficult challenges. Eventually, standard feats aren't going to cut it. They will need feats that duplictate some (not all) higher level class abilities to prevail or the campaign will fall apart.

What class abilities would those be? Most classes have gotten most of their unique powers by 5th level, and everything after that is merely additional uses (also granted by feats) or minor ability tweaks that aren't that useful.

Beyond 4th level spells, which start tilting the spellcaster-mundane balance, I'm not sure what really makes the difference here.
 

Ry

Explorer
Shazman said:
These adjustments would be necessary for a long term E6 campaign that has the characters facing increasingly difficult challenges. Eventually, standard feats aren't going to cut it. They will need feats that duplictate some (not all) higher level class abilities to prevail or the campaign will fall apart.

I wouldn't say "fall apart" - I'd say there's room to manoeuvre in terms of what you allow.

I like the idea of a feat for 6th level druids where you choose 1 Large animal that you can wildshape into.
 


RigaMortus2

First Post
I just read the first couple pages, and I think the theory behind this E6 idea. So I had some thoughts (perhaps others had already mentioned them)...

1) I've been playing with max hit points per level for some time now. I wonder if E6 would be unbalanced if I did the same?

2) Perhaps a choice at each level after 6th. At each 5,000xp after 6th level, you can choose one of the following:
(a) A bonus feat you meet the prereqs for
(b) +1 BAB
(c) 1 Hit Dice woth of hit points (in my case, it would be max hit points)
(d) Gain class abilities as if you gained an additional level in a class. In other words, if you were a 6th level Rogue, and you selected this option, you would get the class abilities of a 7th level Rogue (+4d6 sneak attack), but nothing else.

Thoughts?

A question though... What happens to skills? These don't seem to improve beyond 6th level. Is that a problem?
 

Ry

Explorer
Hi Rigamortis! Check out the FAQ in the E6 .pdf (hosted at the OGC E6 wiki)

1) I think max HP works fine
2) I'm not for these (except a of course) because IMO it allows everything out of D&D. The big thing with E6 is that some things don't get in. Unless you were thinking these could only be taken once, in which case it's the Lean Upward approach (again, see the faq in the .pdf)

A question for the regulars: How often do you game?
 


Status
Not open for further replies.

Halloween Horror For 5E

Advertisement2

Advertisement4

Top