E6

[Desdichado]

Ah, so you mean just a lower magic, lower power, sword & sorcery system.

The Conan game by Mongoose might be a good pick. Very similar to D&D 3.5, but toned down in a lot of ways, and without the flyaway power levels at the top. The exact same is true for Black Company and Thieves' World, both by Green Ronin. Grim Tales by Bad Axe Games does the same thing by adapting d20 Modern to fantasy.

The advantage of these d20 derivatives is that they're more or less compatible with all the other material you've already got, which is a hard thing to overestimate. You need monsters, spells, classes, adventures, or whatever? Well, with a d20 variant you've got a bazillion in print. With Warhammer (which is a great system, by the way; I recommend it as a fun game) you've got the stuff that they've published, and it's not a lot, and when it's done, there's nothing else.

 

[Silvercat Moonpaw]

Fantasy Craft has optional rules tweaks mentioned in a section of the text that allow you to change how aspects of the system work so you can use it for lower magic, lower power, sword & sorcery without having to figure out the rules tweaks yourself.

 

[Verdande]

Not D&D then.

Well, actually, not most RPGs then.

Not to get off-topic, but I think a RPG that doesn't do that is a moderate failure.
If the settings don't dovetail in perfectly with the setting, then that's no good. For example, Eberron takes D&D and extrapolates it into a coherent setting, instead of a mish-mash of european settings and superstitions where wizards are common and also rare and feared and can easily change the entire world, but don't. I could go on, but I'm going to get back on topic.

I recommend Warhammer, 2nd edition. The heroes get to be powerful, true, but always mortal and easily killed. Matter of fact, I nearly killed one of my players in a bar-room brawl in the first half-hour. They started some beef, they pulled weapons first, and then suddenly it got nastier than they'd liked. Serves them right

 

[Aus_Snow]

I was only responding to the quoted line, re: 'real physics'. IME, very few RPGs even get remotely close to such a thing. If they even genuinely tried to in the first place (fewer still.)

But gritty, nasty, 'real' consequences, that kind of thing, oh sure. Plenty of things to choose from.

 

[Bullgrit]

Back in 1st edition eventually everything evened out and the curve slowed down. You evolved but more and more you had to rely on wits and intelegence to win the day instead of huge numbers. Hundreds of hitpoints ect. Heroes got better but didn't become gods. (unless thats what the GM wanted.)
I am not on an edition rant I have a question. That rule system created one type of fantasy, a conan fantasy. Where the modern rules create more of a, comic book fantasy.

Let me quote a very astute point made by Hussar in another thread:

The problem with RPG discussions comes when people presume that their experience is universal.

Your description of old D&D was not nearly universal, and your description of new D&D is not nearly universal. Presenting your query with this kind of comparison is begging for an edition war.

"Old D&D is good, and new D&D is bad. But I don't want to start an edition war." Yeah, right. You could have asked your question without mentioning anything about D&D editions. You could even go back, now, and edit out the unnecessary edition comments. I wonder if you will.

As for E6: I absolutely love E6 for D&D3. I use just the core books for my E6 D&D3 -- I don't bother with all the extra rules folks have come up with to complicate the simplicity and beauty that is the base E6.

If you want what you describe, use E6, and just leave out all the extra stuff. It will work wonderfully straight out of the base books.

Bullgrit

 

[Layander]

I dont appreciate trolls. Most people have been very helpful. I do appreciate that. I never said one edition was better than another. I may have said they are differant, I may say I liked one thing better than another, but I never recall saying no one should play edition X because it sucks. I have been running dungeons and dragons games since there were no such thing as editions, I have run 1e games 2e games 3e and 4e. I currently run 4e games in LFR. I want something for my home game though.
If I were to say I wanted to run a game set in space with phasers and no magic, and that D&D 4th edition isnt the right game for me in that setting would you still try to troll and say I am starting an edition war?
I am sorry it just urks me when someone railroads this and tried to be as unhelpful as possible.
Most of you are talking about WFRP I have the books and I have alot of fun with WFB (Bretonnians) so I may talk my group into that, thank you very much everyone.

 

[Grimstaff]

Check out Swords & Wizardry, Layander, it possibly has the power curve you're looking for.

 

[Silvercat Moonpaw]

I'm a prospective in E6. I like the idea of ending D&D magic at 3rd level spells. I like not having too much magic items stuff. However I'm wondering on the "gritty" angle. At this point I sort of understand what it means, and it's not quite my preferred style. I'd like something more survivable and a bit less realistic while at the same time keeping with E6's down-to-earth-ness.

Does anyone have any advice on how to do that with E6? (Example: I've thought about using Action Points.)
Or any systems that would do the job better?

 

[Votan]

Just found out about this thing called E6 for 3.5. Something about this hit me. I want to play a roleplaying game similar to this. Its very very interesting. I like the heroic fantasy where you play mortal men and women doing heroic things. I dont like super hero D&D as it has come to be today. Please do not start a flame war here. I am just trying to ask something. Back in 1st edition eventually everything evened out and the curve slowed down. You evolved but more and more you had to rely on wits and intelegence to win the day instead of huge numbers. Hundreds of hitpoints ect. Heroes got better but didn't become gods. (unless thats what the GM wanted.)
I am not on an edition rant I have a question. That rule system created one type of fantasy, a conan fantasy. Where the modern rules create more of a, comic book fantasy. To each his own but, I would like to play a game like E6 something modern with custom characters, and options other than just swing again, but where the growth of the game balances out and orcs can always be a menace, even if the PCs are getting better and better at killing them. The fellowship of the ring was a party filled with expert adventurers, but one still died to orcs. Something where the game will always seem based in a world where real physics exist.
This is a very long winded post, one I am worried will be misunderstood or flamed, but anyone there who can understand the ramblings of a very old roleplayer please try to help. What I need is your suggestions of the system I should try. One that has the elements of a heroic fantasy game without Wuxia or Super Heroic stunts. Thank you for your time.
Layander

I think E6 is a very good compromise for low power games. It gets a great sense of power balance going, keeps dangerous things really dangerous (think dragons and beholders) and finally makes feats work well (in my opinion, at least).

It'd be easy to import into, for example, pathfinder as well. People know the mechanics of the underlying game system. There are some cool ideas like turning 4th level spells into rituals (i.e. restoration) that are also very flavorful.

Not that other choices do not exist; but this would be the way I would do 3.5/Pathfinder if I did them again.

 

[Aus_Snow]

I'm a prospective in E6. I like the idea of ending D&D magic at 3rd level spells. I like not having too much magic items stuff. However I'm wondering on the "gritty" angle. At this point I sort of understand what it means, and it's not quite my preferred style. I'd like something more survivable and a bit less realistic while at the same time keeping with E6's down-to-earth-ness.

Does anyone have any advice on how to do that with E6? (Example: I've thought about using Action Points.)
Or any systems that would do the job better?

Conviction (with Vice and Virtue) from True20, or Hero Points (with Complications) from M&M, or yes, Action Points from d20 Modern / Unearthed Arcana / the SRD. Or similar.

And, possibly an option like adding Constitution to 1st level HP, rather than the modifier (but using the modifier for the other five levels.) Just for example. There are a few other things you could do too, but I don't really know what would be a priority for you.

As for systems that have that unusual combination ('down-to-Earth' but not gritty). . . um, maybe Savage Worlds? But I don't know for sure - never played it.

edit --- Or, as I managed to remember while posting in a different thread (of course!) -- there's EABA. A nice, sleek, point-build setting-neutral RPG, with a feature known as 'diminishing returns', which means that, although wounds to various locations hamper your skills or suchlike (not unreasonable, IMO) the more that, say, an already broken leg is damaged, the less it 'matters' (i.e., wounds you.)