Eagle Summons the Fire: What?

[CapnZapp]

Based on the quote above, I see no language whatsoever extending the range of powers.

Just because you have line of sight and line of effect to something 20 squares away does not mean you can make ranged attacks at that target.

You also need range 20 for those attacks.

What the power means is that you don't need to fulfill the LoS/LoE requirements for targeting things.

 

[jeffwik]

CapnZapp, what I quoted was the entire text of the paragon path class ability. I'm not sure I buy your interpretation, because while there's no mention of "range extension" in the text, there isn't any mention of "line of sight" or "line of effect" either -- the ability is that you can target squares adjacent to the companion, not that you can target squares adjacent to the companion "provided those squares would be in range."

As I understand it, there's two reasons one would not be able to target a square with a ranged power: either there is no line of effect, or the square isn't within range. If I read this ability to eliminate one of these possible reasons for not being able to target a square, I don't see how I can justify not eliminating the other. If the ability was "you and your allies have line of effect to these squares," that would be one thing, but it doesn't say that; it says "you and your allies can target these squares."

 

[Alex319]

Another complication:

The power says that it allows you to target those squares, but it doesn't say anything about negating cover or concealment penalties.

So at best, even if you were able to attack a square that you did not have LoS/LoE to, you would be at -10 to attacks (-5 for total concealment, since you can't see the target, and -5 for total cover, because presumably whatever is blocking your LoS would also block the LoE).

Of course, you could always hire a few dozen low-level archers, have them stay in town while you go out adventuring, have them "channel" their arrows through the spirit once you cast it, and count up the natural 20's...

 

[the8bitdeity]

Perhaps it simply allows you to target squares in range without provoking OAs?

 

[chitzk0i]

Anybody got any news about ESTF?

 

[N8Ball]

Another complication:

The power says that it allows you to target those squares, but it doesn't say anything about negating cover or concealment penalties.

So at best, even if you were able to attack a square that you did not have LoS/LoE to, you would be at -10 to attacks (-5 for total concealment, since you can't see the target, and -5 for total cover, because presumably whatever is blocking your LoS would also block the LoE).

...

Cover an concealment don't combine, you either have one versus a particular attack or the other. In several places the PHB says you have one or the other, but never implies you can have both.

So the max penalty is -5 if the target had Superior Cover. (Naturally concealment would not apply to the area attacks in these examples)

Sounds like a power that's pretty easy to abuse. I'd expect most DMs to put some kind of reasonable limitation on the effect.

Like making sure the Shaman himself was within the original range of the power (and have LOS to him in the case of an invisible shaman), since you are channeling the attacks through *his* spirit. Just cause you know a guy across the state doesn't mean you should be able to use his powers and spirit.

It's still a pretty incredible power since the shaman can now use his spirit like a grenade that he throws into a room and lets the wizard fireball through it.

 

[Eric Finley]

All I've got is the standard "We dunno" response from CustServ. "We have passed this conversation along to the game's developers and yadda yadda." So no answers yet.

 

[the8bitdeity]

After some re-reading, I think it's actually quite simple.

If an enemy is adjacent, it is considered a viable target, even if it's out of normal range. Basically all squares adjacent are threatened for the purposes of ranged and area attacks.

 

[Klaus]

Based on the quote above, I see no language whatsoever extending the range of powers.

Just because you have line of sight and line of effect to something 20 squares away does not mean you can make ranged attacks at that target.

You also need range 20 for those attacks.

No, you don't. What the power does is let you circumvent those restrictions.

It isn't the first time it has happened. Arcane Power has the falcon familiar. Once per encounter, you can have the range of your arcane powers be determined by your falcon familiar until the end of your next turn. And the falcon can exist up to 40 squares away from you. Meaning a wizard can blast something, say, 60 squares (spell range 20 + falcon range 40) away three times (two rounds + action point) once per encounter.

 

[DracoSuave]

After some re-reading, I think it's actually quite simple.

If an enemy is adjacent, it is considered a viable target, even if it's out of normal range. Basically all squares adjacent are threatened for the purposes of ranged and area attacks.

Except that's not what the feature says.

Which is why the trouble in the first place.

No, you don't. What the power does is let you circumvent those restrictions.

It isn't the first time it has happened. Arcane Power has the falcon familiar.

Falcon familiar -says- you can do this thing. That's a huge difference. Falcon Familiar says 'You can do this thing, even tho normally you can't.' This class feature says 'You can do this thing.' The rules already say 'You can do this thing' except when you can't. So the class feature isn't excepting the rules; two rules saying 'You can do this thing' are what get excepted by the rules saying 'Except here you can't.'

The rule! It does nothing!


Also, the spirit companion has a range inherent in it anyways as a moveable conjuration, so you're not getting 60 range bolts of doom working out that well.