[Eberron] How are YOU going to handle the NPC level issue?

[Christopher Lambert]

If you really need to go after an army, though, destroy their food (and water, unless easy to get by geographically), kill their officers, lay waste to their camp, infect soldiers with contagious diseases, turn people into contagious undead (at night, so they aren't detected as soon), magically disguise yourself as an officer (or create an illusion) and give confusing/deadly/demoralizing orders, and randomly slaughter dozens of people with area effect spells in hit-and-run attacks.
Repeatedly.
In short, destroy any semblance of order, organization and troop morale (and kill/disable large numbers of people as efficiently as possible *edit* - if necessary; IMO making them retreat or desert in large numbers is generally preferable to killing them outright).

Sounds like Cao Cao's strategy. He was a Chinese general, and one time, early in his career, he had to face down some Yellow Turbans (political dissidents who had turned to banditry; they claimed they could use magic). The previous governor had been killed facing them (something about being outnumbered 10:1), even though the Yellow Turbans were mainly farmers barely trained in the use of weapons.

Cao Cao split his army into 10 and had a detachment attack every few hours, so the Yellow Turbans couldn't sleep. By the time he let them surrender (he killed far more than he should have, since they killed his good friend) they still outnumbered him 2:1. They became his first private army.

But if the mage isn't much of a politician or tactician, would he be able to control such an army?

 

[Darkness]

Nice. Gotta love ancient Chinese generals...

I was mostly thinking about disintegrating the army but if you have a Bard (or whatever) with maxed out social skills, taking it over is certainly possible not to mention desirable. Mind control helps, too.

 

[Christopher Lambert]

Nice. Gotta love ancient Chinese generals...

I was mostly thinking about disintegrating the army but if you have a Bard (or whatever) with maxed out social skills, taking it over is certainly possible not to mention desirable. Mind control helps, too.

That's one of the things that bugs me about DnD. There's no social class that doesn't get sneak attacks, magic or other such baggage.

I can stat Cao Cao up in D20 Modern just fine.

Sorry, somewhat off-topic.

 

[Acid_crash]

Ya know what... if a person of 20th level is starting to run amok in the world... what are all those Dragons doing about it? Especially if they see the 20th level PC's as a threat.

 

[shilsen]

Ya know what... if a person of 20th level is starting to run amok in the world... what are all those Dragons doing about it? Especially if they see the 20th level PC's as a threat.

It's not just the dragons. The way I see it, 20th lvl PCs are going to be on the radar of just about every important political and power group on Eberron long before they reach that level. Numerous NPCs will be trying to either get the PCs to work for them or to maniuplate the PCs for their own ends, and definitely developing contingency plans to deal with the possibility that these PCs can be a danger in the future.

Since some of the posters have used the nuclear analogy, let me extend it and say that a PC with levels in the double figures in an Eberron setting would likely be viewed the way a country gathering nuclear material is seen in the 21st century. It doesn't have nukes yet but it's evidently on the way to doing so, and people start thinking of ways to deal with it, preferably before it does.

20th lvl PCs don't just appear, unless a DM lets them start the campaign that way. By the time they get there, a whole lot of people out there will know about them and be (overtly or otherwise) reacting to their existence.

 

[JoeGKushner]

That's one of the things that bugs me about DnD. There's no social class that doesn't get sneak attacks, magic or other such baggage.

I can stat Cao Cao up in D20 Modern just fine.

Sorry, somewhat off-topic.

Mongoose has the Noble in one of their small books. Green Ronin has the Noble as one of their Masterclass Books. one of the Dragonlance books, I think it's the core one, has a Noble too. This doesn't count non-D&D products like the Noble from Star Wars, Wheel of Time or Fading Suns.

 

[JoeGKushner]

Darkness, you and I are thinking along the same terms. I don't care if it's a 100K sized army. They are not going to get the mage. A mid (11th-14th) level group would have a 'decent' chance but 100K 1st-6th level people are not. The mage (and his party), are going to use hit and run tactics and can cause such massive attrition that the army is either going to run out of food, or just realize that this is not the way to handle a group of high level warriors.

Any PC that didn't use his advanced spells to take out the military intelligence such as teleporting one 20th level rogue into the command center with improved invisiblity on himself and the rogue, really isn't a PC.

Someone mentioned that it doesn't matter how powerful the characters are because hey, they couldn't stop the 100 year war and I say that's because they weren't there. Think of the PC's as being the main characters in Star Wars. Change on a galaxy wide scale due to a small group of rebels. How about the Forgotten Realms latest trilogy with the Hunter's Blades? Comes down to a few smaller groups of power. PCs are world shakers at those levels and they should be.

The trick comes in challenging them. I too have found that as they advance, they move into their own spheres of influence. If the mage is doing research, he moves into the old tower. The fighter gains his armies, the rogue his minions, the monk his school.

Yeah, taking on an army this size isn't feasible unless you want to spend a half a year slowly whittling them down with one hit-and-run attack after the other.

But then, unless - say - they're besieging something and you need to lift that siege, there should be no reason to fight an army anyway: They can't catch you and they can't prevent you from going wherever you want.
Plus, their commanders, as well as any nobles who might have sent the army, are far more vulnerable than the army itself. So if you need to do something about the army, you should go after them instead.

If you really need to go after an army, though, destroy their food (and water, unless easy to get by geographically), kill their officers, lay waste to their camp, infect soldiers with contagious diseases, turn people into contagious undead (at night, so they aren't detected as soon), magically disguise yourself as an officer (or create an illusion) and give confusing/deadly/demoralizing orders, and randomly slaughter dozens of people with area effect spells in hit-and-run attacks.
Repeatedly.
In short, destroy any semblance of order, organization and troop morale (and kill/disable large numbers of people as efficiently as possible *edit* - if necessary; IMO making them retreat or desert in large numbers is generally preferable to killing them outright).

 

[RichGreen]

Hi,

If I ever get my Eberron game started, I'd consider moving some of the key NPCs up in level as the PCs advance to preserve the differential.

Cheers


Richard

 

[Timeboxer]

Dude, this scenario is NEVER going to happen. Five nations are not going to get together to tackle one dude.

I could've sworn we just had this thing... 1939... September 1st... Oh, it's just on the tip of my tongue.

 

[JoeGKushner]

I could've sworn we just had this thing... 1939... September 1st... Oh, it's just on the tip of my tongue.

Well, we are moving into political territory but...

The whole world didn't gang up on four-six people. Many forces were involved on 'both' sides.

Which is another thing I've noted several times. If the PC's do take some world action, another faction is going to support them just because they wanted to commit those same deeds themselves. Especailly if the characters have strong background ties. Imagine if an elf took out the nation rulers that hates elves...