D&D 3.x Edition Experience - Did/Do you Play 3rd Edtion D&D? How Was/Is it?

How Did/Do You Feel About 3E/3.5E D&D?

  • I'm playing it right now; I'll have to let you know later.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

Eh. By the time the game was in full swing, there were two kinds of PrCs: Setting-dedicated class add-ons, and specialization-representation PrCs. The first needed to be managed, but the latter were either balanced or they weren't; if they were, you shouldn't have needed to do anything special to justify access, and if they weren't they shouldn't have been in play anyway.
Yeah, that's fair. Just because my default is test based PrCs doesn't mean I could not be convinced to make an exception. It just means "tell me what you want and explain to me why it will neither clash with the setting nor cause problems at the table, and how it makes sense".

I'm open minded, but it's a "default to no outside this curated set, then talk to me if you want something special and I will listen".
 

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I wrote my thoughts about 3.x in this thread back in 2020 and they've withstood the test of time. I wanted to just add a little bit of information.

My understanding is that with the hardcover-per-month, the bulk of the work was done by outside contractors. And books would be many months, if not regularly over a year, in the pipeline. The in-house team did the coordination, but every character option from book A wouldn't have a chance to be considered against books B, C, D, E, F, G, and H also in development to make sure that there weren't combinations that were unbalanced. And with the sheer amount of material, it means that a new book couldn't even have every option considered against every option the 24 books in the previous 2 years (to pick a number), much less actual playtesting that included all of the options. So a lot of power combos came through. Something that might be reasonable considered with the core books and the book it was published in but broken when combined with other books that came out. At the very least, power creep became an irresistible force if allowing all books.
 

My understanding is that with the hardcover-per-month, the bulk of the work was done by outside contractors. And books would be many months, if not regularly over a year, in the pipeline. The in-house team did the coordination, but every character option from book A wouldn't have a chance to be considered against books B, C, D, E, F, G, and H also in development to make sure that there weren't combinations that were unbalanced. And with the sheer amount of material, it means that a new book couldn't even have every option considered against every option the 24 books in the previous 2 years (to pick a number), much less actual playtesting that included all of the options. So a lot of power combos came through. Something that might be reasonable considered with the core books and the book it was published in but broken when combined with other books that came out. At the very least, power creep became an irresistible force if allowing all books.
Yep. That makes a ton of sense too. Most of the ones I like are by a small number of recurring designers / authors. I noticed a big quality drop off when they started bringing in more and more new names, I assumed it was high turnover or hiring too many new employees as a teenager, but contractors makes more sense now that you mention it.
 

The simplest thing Id do, at most if I was playing 3.0/3.5 would be:

-Replace the Fighter with the Warblade/Swordsage/Crusader trio since they are the better martial options in all honesty.

-Allow the PHB 2 or at least just the Duskblade.

-Swap in whole sale Pathfinder 1E's skill system. Cross Skills are annoying point wise and at least your not getting gimped as bad with the way they are treated there. (EPESCIALLY since some classes don't getany skill points at all unless you proc into INT hard or playing something like a rogue or what have you). Also some skills are condensed into just one skill and that's a nice QoL feature.

Thats pretty much it.
 

PHB3.0 + PHB3.5 + DMG3.0 + Monsters of Faerun + MM1(3.0) + FRCS + PGFR + Magic of Faerun + Races of Faerun + one relevant FR locational book + monster book if you're playing as a monster that fits the campaign premise (whatever the GM okays) if applicable - played pretty nicely for character options, IMO. Use the UA variant rule where PrCs are all run by an organisation and you need a teacher and they don't just have stat prereqs - but instead make you take and pass a test ingame. Add in Tome and Blood and the Arms & Equipment guide, and you're set - (unless you want to expand the gameplay loop from the usual kill and loot cycle, then add in Mongoose Strongholds and Dynasties for mass combat or construction projects, or Seas of Blood for seafaring and ship combat, or Wilds & Wildscape for wilderness hazards, or City Works + CityScape for urban faction ang guildplay, or Dynasties and Demagogues for political maneuvering, or Crime and Punishment for trials and criminal investigations; or Mongoose Ultimate Games Designer's Companion for a big grabbag of gameplay expansion (probably the first expansion book I'd recommend in that it's useful for all campaigns) ;P).

I think that was a good time, but it's very different from the "All WotC content is fair game Character Optimisation is the whole point" gameplay I see people doing who showed up in late 3.5 or got into it after the edition ended.

And you're absolutely right, 3e is a very different game depending on which and how many expansion books you add in.
Honestly, the best way to power down 3.X is to not use the PHB (outside of core game functions like skills). Only using books from 2004-2007 is much more balanced than PHB games.
 

It was not "all books are clear" in my campaigns for content.



If I'm going to D&D it's my D&D of choice, but that's for best core rules while still supporting the 2e Settings quite well through the 3e setting books for TSR settings, and for some 3rd party expansions, not for the trillion character options bloat in WotC splats over time.
I agree. It’s what I still run. The core rules are great and super flexible, and it’s compatible enough with what came before - I run mostly AD&D and Basic adventures.

The do anything easily aspect of 3x - easy to use a monster as a PC, easy to import d20 stuff from other genres if you want it - is a strength for DMing it. It is complicated to DM though, for sure.

Most of the criticism of 3x here focuses on later splatbooks and CharOp. There’s no reason to use them if you don’t want them, and I don’t.
 

I think a large part of the problem was that they turned prestige classes into player facing components (helps pad out all of those books with player options) instead of having them as DM content that could be dropped into a game as something that could entice players to join.
WotC killed 3x with splatbooks for CharOp.

TSR killed 2e with splatbooks and an unsupportable large number of settings.

So far, 5e has been more restrained.
 

Honestly, the best way to power down 3.X is to not use the PHB (outside of core game functions like skills). Only using books from 2004-2007 is much more balanced than PHB games.
PH core only druid is really strong. Wildshape with large dire bear at 8th level including improved grab claws with +23 grapple check is strong melee and BBEG or most any humanoid control. Can dump stat things like strength and still be a melee powerhouse. Plus animal companion and summon animal action economy masters. Plus full caster. Main weaknesses are things with DR (which can still be grapple pinned to lock down) and the first couple levels.

In my high level group the single classed archer focused fighter was a high AC machine gun of arrows that did more damage than anybody else.

Batman Swiss army knife utility wizard comes into play around mid level from core PH and stays strong throughout the game. It is also a SAD class so getting tough saves on save or die stuff is built into core. Those can be situational (mind affecting immune creatures, necromancy immune things, etc.) but they are really strong against a lot and they have other options. Their utility is huge, enabling safe resting, scry buff teleport, invisibility and knock. They can do buffs, information, direct attack, combat control, etc.

Rogue is among the weakest classes, core or with supplements, but arcane trickster prestige class is a competitive power class and it is from core DMG. Down a little on sneak attack and caster, but full advancing in both means they will generally hit with touch attack sneak attacks and do really good damage on the ray plus sneak attack spell attacks and improved invis enables lots of sneak attacks.

Cleric is strong, enough time to buff they can out melee the warrior classes. With core cure light wound wands they do not have to be primarily healers with their spells, but can use their spells for other and more direct effects.

Supplements starting with Sword & Fist made a ton of options, but usually big tradeoffs. Very few things were just stronger than core options. Most caster prestige classes either gave up a caster level which was huge or gave very minor extra benefits.

Ur Priest prestige class accelerated spell levels could be exploited, libris mortis undead creation feats, the kobold pun pun exploit of the Forgotten Realms Serpent Empires Sarrukh racial scaled folk genetic manipulation power. Psionic thrall herding could be an issue.

Most expansion things were just not up to the power level of single classed top tiered core stuff.

Tome of Nine Blades super power ranger classes gave those warriors mechanically interesting powers that were decent strength, but not core CoDzilla levels.

Beguiler was a really fun class with lots of interesting stuff flavorwise and mechanically, but it was not to the power level of a core wizard who could be an enchanter specialist but still have options against the many creatures immune to mind affecting spells.

Hexblades were full of flavor but were like light armored rangers with no healing, no animal companions, and debuffs instead of ranger spells.

PH2 druid alt unlimited wildshape from first level was flavorful and awesome, but required using the druid's human stats making them more MAD and not nearly as powerful as turning into 31 strength dire bear at 8th level.
 

Yeah, that's fair. Just because my default is test based PrCs doesn't mean I could not be convinced to make an exception. It just means "tell me what you want and explain to me why it will neither clash with the setting nor cause problems at the table, and how it makes sense".

I'm open minded, but it's a "default to no outside this curated set, then talk to me if you want something special and I will listen".

Well, that's just being mechanically cautious; there's nothing wrong with that. I just think there's no reason to intrinsically go through a lot of in-game backflips to access the Knife Fighter PrC.
 

PH core only druid is really strong. Wildshape with large dire bear at 8th level including improved grab claws with +23 grapple check is strong melee and BBEG or most any humanoid control. Can dump stat things like strength and still be a melee powerhouse. Plus animal companion and summon animal action economy masters. Plus full caster. Main weaknesses are things with DR (which can still be grapple pinned to lock down) and the first couple levels.

In my high level group the single classed archer focused fighter was a high AC machine gun of arrows that did more damage than anybody else.

Batman Swiss army knife utility wizard comes into play around mid level from core PH and stays strong throughout the game. It is also a SAD class so getting tough saves on save or die stuff is built into core. Those can be situational (mind affecting immune creatures, necromancy immune things, etc.) but they are really strong against a lot and they have other options. Their utility is huge, enabling safe resting, scry buff teleport, invisibility and knock. They can do buffs, information, direct attack, combat control, etc.

Rogue is among the weakest classes, core or with supplements, but arcane trickster prestige class is a competitive power class and it is from core DMG. Down a little on sneak attack and caster, but full advancing in both means they will generally hit with touch attack sneak attacks and do really good damage on the ray plus sneak attack spell attacks and improved invis enables lots of sneak attacks.

Cleric is strong, enough time to buff they can out melee the warrior classes. With core cure light wound wands they do not have to be primarily healers with their spells, but can use their spells for other and more direct effects.

Supplements starting with Sword & Fist made a ton of options, but usually big tradeoffs. Very few things were just stronger than core options. Most caster prestige classes either gave up a caster level which was huge or gave very minor extra benefits.

Ur Priest prestige class accelerated spell levels could be exploited, libris mortis undead creation feats, the kobold pun pun exploit of the Forgotten Realms Serpent Empires Sarrukh racial scaled folk genetic manipulation power. Psionic thrall herding could be an issue.

Most expansion things were just not up to the power level of single classed top tiered core stuff.

Tome of Nine Blades super power ranger classes gave those warriors mechanically interesting powers that were decent strength, but not core CoDzilla levels.

Beguiler was a really fun class with lots of interesting stuff flavorwise and mechanically, but it was not to the power level of a core wizard who could be an enchanter specialist but still have options against the many creatures immune to mind affecting spells.

Hexblades were full of flavor but were like light armored rangers with no healing, no animal companions, and debuffs instead of ranger spells.

PH2 druid alt unlimited wildshape from first level was flavorful and awesome, but required using the druid's human stats making them more MAD and not nearly as powerful as turning into 31 strength dire bear at 8th level.
Yep.

Strongest classes in 3.5 are wizard, cleric, druid, psion, and artificer in some order. Get rid of the PHB, get rid of XPH, and don't use artificer (other Eberron stuff is fine), and you've got a system with a ton of versatility but none of the Tier 1 abuse of standard 3.5
 

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