[EDITION WARZ] Selling Out D&D's Soul?

[Dracorat]

But why? What makes it better now then before? Not that I disagree with you, but the reasons are important.

The ruleset is flexible enough to be tailored to people's needs.
The ruleset is freely available, so people are out of the "I am poor" excuse.
The ruleset is fleshed out quite well, with background, flavor text and examples
The ruleset has been seriously given an eye to balance. Some things fail, but overall, it works.
There is a great wealth of material covering all breadths of topics.
Flavor can be tailored to specific play styles, specific campaigns or specific interests.
For those of us who really like tactical gameplay, the minis are given sufficient weight in the game and practical use.
Finally, the introduction of computers in to the game mechanic really enhances the new player experience, communication, rules arbitration and in some cases, even finding or playing.

D&D is better now than it ever was. =)

 

[Psion]

There is no "soul of D&D". There is only how well or how poorly the owner of the game meets the needs of the audience. As the audience varies, so does opinion on this. "Soul of D&D" is just a rhetoric to try to sell your particular veiw as somehow more correct that anyone else's.

 

[Nifft]

But why? What makes it better now then before? Not that I disagree with you, but the reasons are important.

Most DMs have many years of experience.
This experience has translated into levels, and therefore skill points.
Our "Craft (Game)" check is, like, awesome.

-- N

PS: Seriously: being older and more experienced, I can consciously make my group, my game, and thus my experience what I want it to be, rather than relying on luck. Grown-ups rule!

 

[Allensh]

The current game system published as "D&D" is a wholly different system that uses the D&D name for branding purposes.

I agree with this statement...but I am not prepared tosay this is a bad thing. It just is.

There are some design concepts of original D&D that carried through to AD&D. Some of these carried through into 2nd edition. Very few made it to 3rd.

I do thinnk that 3rd edition is suffering from splat book bloat to almost the same degree that 2nd edition did. But that doesn't mean that the game itself is bad. It does mean that Wizards does seem to market bad things - powergaming, endless amounts of prestige classes, new 'goodies' - over good things, and maybe needs to reinforce the authority of the DM a bit since that seems to have eroded in some circles. But this is a marketing and play issue.

Myself, I am having fun with older versions right now and with C&C. But I'm not saying I'll never run 3.5 again; I probably will. But not ALL of 3.5...

Allen

 

[RFisher]

And how does the most recent edition/trends/design of the game violate that? How does what D&D is becoming/has become/became before pervert what you think this spirit and soul of D&D is?

I don't know that I would put the reasons for my preference in terms of spirit & soul. It basically comes down to the fact that I've learned to see the classic game as not broken, so the current games looks like a bunch of fixes for things that weren't broken.

Also, the current D&D is one of the few role-playing games I've experienced in which all the parts are so beautifully & carefully put together that I find it difficult to simplify enough for my tastes.

And, here's the clincher: why is that a bad thing? Obviously, many people feel that D&D's trends now are beating and deflowering their precious game, but what would you rather have WotC publish? What new things would satisfy what you need?

The only thing that saddens me about the current situation is that I feel that the classic game & the current game are different enough to be considered different games, even if they bear the same name. I feel the classic game really is a classic that deserves better than the limbo of out-of-print. If the copyright holder doesn't feel it is valuable enough to print & can't find a partner to license it to, I wish they would place it in the public domain or at least give it out with a liberal license. (Something they've done with the current game!)

Although, the truth is, the final version of classic D&D & both editions of AD&D are available as affordable PDFs. (Maybe not high quality, but it's something.) They have licensed them to a company that is publishing product based on them. (Even if some of us find it a dubious substitute.)

My personal favorite edition, however, is stuck in limbo. As is the original game.

 

[Archade]

I think the spirit and soul is in the understanding that the players are intelligent. Monte Cook or Peter Adkinson said they wanted to have 'mastery' in the game - a simple system that could be played quickly, but mastered with all the nuances slowly.

I agree product bloat is watering down the game. So is the changing of some fundamental ideas - while I like the Warlock, I don't like the concept in recent base classes of giving abilities that work all the time, instead of X/day. I don't like the addition of base classes on the whole, any way.

It does feel that the latest products over the last while (with the exception of DMG2) are really reaching for something to write about - like the staffers are being forced to keep a breakneck pace on publication schedules, rather than put out well-thought product.

I can't fully express the 'soul of D&D', being an old AD&D and 3.0/3.5 player, but they're beginning to lose me where they are taking the game these days...

 

[Philotomy Jurament]

I feel that the classic game & the current game are different enough to be considered different games, even if they bear the same name.

I agree. Sure there are similarities, but they play and feel quite different, IMO. I don't think that's a bad thing, other than some classic versions being unavailable, even on PDF (e.g. B/X and OD&D).

 

[pawsplay]

To me, D&D is gonzo swords-and-sorcery, where knights, wizards, halfling locksmiths, and drunken priests team up to defeat 20 foot tall bullfrogs being controlled by tentacled horrors from beyond. It's a little chivalric romance, a lot of baroque fantasy, and more than a little game night fun.

 

[Nightfall]

The soul of D&D is in the Scarred Lands. I know, I had Orcus steal it for me.

 

[diaglo]

in my opinion

d02 ain't D&D. it is a different game.
it is as playable as ADnD. which is another different game.
or Hackmaster
or C&C

real D&D is OD&D(1974).