[EDITION WARZ] Selling Out D&D's Soul?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Mokona said:
Modern Ford cars look nothing like a Model T. What is in a name? D&D is still Dungeons & Dragons because the name affects how players use the game mechanics. Just like the Ford name conveys a non-physical essence of the product.
Let's take that analogy one step further, and say for argument's sake that the Model T was sold with the intent of being a tinkerer's car, simply designed yet as robust as it could be for its day. And so people tinkered, and built the car they wanted...sometimes incorporating more modern technology as it came available, but still building on the basic model. Fast-forward many years. Ford are still making cars; they do more, go faster, are safer, etc., but are nowhere near as customizable. Why? Because the design philosophy has changed away from building cars for people to tinker with to build the car they want to one of building the car Ford thinks people will want - with a fully-integrated design in which individual components are much harder to change - and selling that.

The Model T is 1e...

Lanefan
 

log in or register to remove this ad

Lanefan said:
Let's take that analogy one step further, and say for argument's sake that the Model T was sold with the intent of being a tinkerer's car, simply designed yet as robust as it could be for its day. And so people tinkered, and built the car they wanted...sometimes incorporating more modern technology as it came available, but still building on the basic model. Fast-forward many years. Ford are still making cars; they do more, go faster, are safer, etc., but are nowhere near as customizable. Why? Because the design philosophy has changed away from building cars for people to tinker with to build the car they want to one of building the car Ford thinks people will want - with a fully-integrated design in which individual components are much harder to change - and selling that.

The Model T is 1e...

Lanefan

Which makes modern cars being equivalent to 2nd edition, and kit cars being equivalent to 3rd?

After all, 3rd edition is so customizeable that Wizards lets other people publish supplements to it, even to the point where some crazy people are taking their Model T's and making trains out of them (Or making superhero games out of d20.).
 

Kamikaze Midget said:
Work itself is no virtue, especially for entertainment. Work to a purpose can be, but me and four friends can have fun playing videogames or going to the movies, too, so there's no purpose in working on D&D. I pay money to be entertained, I don't pay money to do work.

I just wanted to quote this for truth, KM. I think I often fall into the "Hard Work in Planning Adventures is Good" rather than reminding myself that it's a game, and the minute it stops being FUN is the minute to change things up.
 


Kormydigar said:
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: No one wants to have sex with a character without shiny magic items!!! I agree with the spirit of this post but some typos are just too funny.
ROFL :) ...oops...

Reminds of some lewd comments involving a Rod of Lordly Might and a Pouch of Accessability...
 

Raven Crowking said:
(2) Some systems (particularly the unarmed combat system) were dogs. IMHO, of course. (I think I have already agreed multiple times that the 3e RAW is, IMHO, better than the 1e RAW -- I just don't like to see it tarred for crimes it didn't commit! ;) ).
I couldn't agree with this sentiment more.
 

The Shaman said:
Because they learned the game without ever owning the books themselves?* Because they bought the books and never read them completely or thoroughly, preferring to rely on anecdotal knowledge instead? Because they mixed and matched pieces from the different versions of D&D that were all available at the time?

*I played OD&D and the blue box and never gave the books more than a cursory scan - during the game I told the dungeon master what I wanted my character to do, and he told me what I needed to roll. It wasn't until 1e AD&D that I actually started buying and reading the books myself, so I could be the dungeon master. I didn't buy a copy of OD&D until 1979, after I purchased all three 1e AD&D core books.

Now THAT mirrors my experience with the game. :D

For vehicular analogies, I prefer the following:

1e is an older Harley Davidson. Loud, and very, very cantankerous. But, it certainly draws looks when it goes down the road. It begs to be modded and is certainly not for everyone.

2e is a 1982 Jaguar. Very sleek, very pretty. Drive it for two days, spend two weeks in the shop.

3e and 3.5 is a 2004 BMW Z3. It's German engineered so it goes as soon as it hits the ground. And it goes very well. It's very rare that something goes wrong, but, when it does, it's going to be very, very expensive. See the Haste spells of 3e or Polymorph fixing in 3.5.
 

Hussar said:
3e and 3.5 is a 2004 BMW Z3. It's German engineered so it goes as soon as it hits the ground. And it goes very well. It's very rare that something goes wrong, but, when it does, it's going to be very, very expensive. See the Haste spells of 3e or Polymorph fixing in 3.5.


I keep telling you, 3e is just 1e with a lot of house rules...... :lol:
 

My view on what is bad:

Too modern a perspective.

Like news that is touted like TV or newspapers rather then town criers.
Magic is no longer magic. It is just black box technology that you can go down to your local and buy off the shelf. How much good fantasy literature has the adventurers going down to the local market and buying all the items they want. It is a staple in sci-fi to go out and buy the best or go to a black market to do so, but normally magic is treated as something special and not like a slushy at the local 7-11.

This is part and parcel with the powergaming design paradigm that the creators are pushing. Just go and read about the most optimised character builds. For instance where mithral chainmail was a reward to an elven hero by an elven clan and only rarely given to outsiders for exceptional circumstances it is now characterised as the optimum buy for a nightshirt. The current official site is catering for lowest common denominator power gaming hack in slash, nothing wrong with that, just wish there was a higher fibre content for other gaming blends for us oldies :D .

This easy access to special items diminishes the wow ohmygawd factor. All items short of artifacts can be gathered at will. Players optimise their characters, often using spreadsheets with look up tables of feat and item combos. To make sure they can get into a prestige class...nice ironic title for something that isn't so prestigous because everyone and their dog can have one, no offense intended to werewolves. :p ... they will also spend more time predesigning the optimum path for their character. Its not special if everyone can do it. The value in diamonds is not because they are shiny, it is because they are rare.

It leads to situations where players spend far more time designing the characters and tinkering with them then actually using them in combat let alone the meagre portion left over for a half nod to role-playing.

Having said the bad, now for the good.

Note that I said perspective. The attitude may be sub-par but the core mechanics have improved.

The skill system, BAB and the way AC is handled vs the older systems such as THAC0 show that the mechanics have improved vastly. It makes it easier to learn and allows more exceptions to be added... and the way most exceptions to the base rules are handled are as feats... a very very neat solution IMDHO

I wouldn't mind seeing the current skill system to be extrapolated one stage further... that it covers and includes combat. You have a BAB based on skill points and it can be a cross-class skill. Of course with BAB at present when compared to skills it is a three tier system full points, 2/3rd points and halfpoints... I wouldn't change that so much as make the skill system have 3 tiers of skills. Full points... every point you spend gets you a skill rank, 2/3rds points every point you spend you get 2/3rds of a skill rank, 1/2 being the current cross-skill.

Just using the current system it would mean that you could start with a BAB of 4 as a fighter... so an offset might be needed, or not depending on how people feel about level 3 fighters having multiple attacks (beyond using two weapons, one weapon and shield, cleave ...)
 


Status
Not open for further replies.

Pets & Sidekicks

Remove ads

Top