Effects lasting until the end of the encounter, w00t!

[Danzauker]

People aren't missing that, rather they have experience with players who come up with (sometimes very weird) ideas to try and keep one encounter going on and on and on...you get the idea. And if you haven't met players yet to whom the DM's "No" simply means "try harder, I'm not convinced yet" no matter how nonsensical the idea, count yourself lucky.

You raise a good point, actually I count myself among the lucky, but I admit I helped my own luck by:

- making sure we used to play at MY place. Never good to piss the owner of the ball.

- making sure that the action the player wanted resulted in a gory death, sooner or later.

 

[HP Dreadnought]

Player: I cast bull's strength and kick down the door.

DM: Ok, your encounter with the door is over, your bull's strength spell ends.

Nobody will care that their bull's strength ends when the encounter ends, because the cleric will be able to cast one for every encounter.

 

[Danzauker]

Nobody will care that their bull's strength ends when the encounter ends, because the cleric will be able to cast one for every encounter.

I'm not sure that "duration = encounter" actually means "you have one casting EACH encounter".

 

[SteveC]

Per encounter buffs are less of a problem if you only have a small number of per encounter abilities, and there is no way to recover the "slot" used to power the buff until it expires. The cost of the buff is then the opportunity cost of using your per encounter abilities for something else.

For example, say you had three per encounter abilities, and you use one to give you a Strength boost. This means that during a typical encounter, you only have two other per encounter abilities to draw on, and even if you had some ability that allowed you to recover per encounter abilities quickly, you could only recover two abilities unless you gave up your Strength boost.

This is pretty much spot on. Whenever I hear about players wanting to do all sorts of silly things to use their powers in a certain way, I just shake my head. When something like this happens, I just sit down and ask everyone what's going on and what they want to accomplish. Want to keep the fighter constantly buffed with bull's strength and cat's grace? Okay, that's two of your per encounter abilities you've dedicated to doing that. Ding. We're done.

Almost all of the problems we've seen about 4E (heck, problems with ANY game) can be solved if you just sit down and ask what's going on, and come to an agreement about how it will work rather than treating it as some sort of adversarial situation. Seriously.

--Steve

 

[HeinorNY]

What will happen with buffs cast outside combat?

 

[Voss]

Depends on how they define things. It could mean that they instantly go away, or it could mean that unless the 'in combat' music is playing, you can't use that kind of buff.

Or, depending on what you're trying to do, it lasts until the appropriate activity is over. If you can use a strength buff to help you climb/jump over walls (because it raises your climb/jump checks), you could activate it and it could last until you're finished being spiderman. Which could be 2 minutes or two hours...

Or not. Which is why a solid definition of 'encounter' is pretty much required.

 

[Stogoe]

it could last until you're finished being spiderman. Which could be 2 minutes or two hours...

Or not. Which is why a solid definition of 'encounter' is pretty much required.

Why would it be required? Variable length of scenes doesn't offend my sensibilities.

 

[HeinorNY]

Oh please, no WoD dramatic game terms such as "scene" in my D&D.
I'd rather be video-gamey and anime than theatrical and emo.

 

[Majoru Oakheart]

Depends on how they define things. It could mean that they instantly go away, or it could mean that unless the 'in combat' music is playing, you can't use that kind of buff.

Or, depending on what you're trying to do, it lasts until the appropriate activity is over. If you can use a strength buff to help you climb/jump over walls (because it raises your climb/jump checks), you could activate it and it could last until you're finished being spiderman. Which could be 2 minutes or two hours...

Or not. Which is why a solid definition of 'encounter' is pretty much required.

I think there will be SOME definition of encounter in the game. I assume it is pretty much from when initiative is rolled until there are no enemies or traps in sight.

It is likely that outside of combat encounter long buffs will likely have a set duration like 5 minutes (or until initiative is rolled again). That way if you use an ability outside of combat it lasts long enough to do a couple of small things outside of combat (and if the ability is also per encounter, it likely replenishes so you can do it over and over again outside of combat anyways (making the duration fairly unimportant).

 

[The Grackle]

Oh please, no WoD dramatic game terms such as "scene" in my D&D.
I'd rather be video-gamey and anime than theatrical and emo.

Are those your only two choices?

***

I don't know. One-encounter-duration abilities might get wonky if you have disruptive players. But I know that timed abilities cause troubles, even if everyone at the table is very cooperative and reasonable.

A> Buffs that last in rounds add up to a lot of crap to keep track of in a fight and
B> Buffs that last in minutes just make parties hurry through the dungeon to get the most use out of their limited spells.