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Ego Whip is now officially my favourite Psi Power!
- Thread starter Kae'Yoss
- Start date
One aspect of Ego Whip that people tend to miss is that it is probably the lowest level die or die effect in D&D. Against groups, as has been mentioned, it's not so good, but against an individual, once it is pumped up a bit, even the half damage from a succesful save is enough to drop many characters.
And then there is the daze. Someone misses a save, they not only lose a big chunk of Cha, they lose their next action as well. Without the half damage on a succesful save, it's in the same category as Sleep or Hold Person, so I suppose that would be OK, but with the half damage, it's just too strong.
In most campaigns, lots of opponents are immune to mind-affecting things, so that helps to balance Ego Whip for PCs, but for NPCs Ego Whip is far too good.
Are you using the suggestion in Complete Psionic that NPCs should be treated as though they had only half the PPs?
And then there is the daze. Someone misses a save, they not only lose a big chunk of Cha, they lose their next action as well. Without the half damage on a succesful save, it's in the same category as Sleep or Hold Person, so I suppose that would be OK, but with the half damage, it's just too strong.
In most campaigns, lots of opponents are immune to mind-affecting things, so that helps to balance Ego Whip for PCs, but for NPCs Ego Whip is far too good.
Are you using the suggestion in Complete Psionic that NPCs should be treated as though they had only half the PPs?
Kae'Yoss
First Post
Shin Ji said:
You can't really compare levels when psionics are involved. Once it's pumped up a bit, it costs as much as a higher-level power.
Just like a very low-level power can deal the same damage as a high-level one.
In my campaign, about half the characters have really nice charisma scores, the others have average to above-average scores. It looked as if I could safely use that power without dropping anyone outright - just some inconvenience.
It worked out perfect when one used his cha as dump stat and ignored his will saves.
Nope. I don't give spellcasters only half their spells, either. Especially if it's an ambush like in this case.
Kae'Yoss said:
Not necessarily. Depending on abilities, even medium uses of it can be pretty nasty for not a real lot of PP.
A Psion 5 / Anarchic Initiate 3 can surge and empower 2D4 for 9 PP for a potential 8 (i.e. rolled 2 fours on the dice) + 8 (50% surge + 50% empower) or 16 Cha if the save is failed. The odds of this max damage are only 1 in 64, but it can happen.
And granted, this is a maximum result. The range for this is 2 to 16 and the average is 8.125 (weird math happens with surges).
Just because a normal Psion 9 without special abilities can only do 2D4 with 7 PP does not mean that there are not ways to really boost this.
At real high level (e.g. 20), an Anarchic Initiate using Empower Power and Ego Whip can practically guarantee (3/4ths of the time) taking out most any creature that is not immune to mind effects, does not have a really high Cha or has high spell/power resistance with a single 5D6 Ego Whip, even if the save is made.
But, my favorite application of this power is against Sorcerers.
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Plane Sailing
Astral Admin - Mwahahaha!
airwalkrr said:
You've taken a bit of flak, so I want to support you.
I introduced the house rule that raise dead costs 2 Con, resurrection costs 1 Con and true resurrection doesn't cost any Con. This is instead of losing a level.
Why?
a) a level loss is FAR more of a death spiral effect than a Con loss
b) a level loss can't be mitigated by a magic item, a Con loss can (amulet of health)
c) a level loss can screw up campaign details. What if the PC took leadership as his last feat and gained a cohort which was really meaningful in terms of the campaign, and with a great history that led up to this point, and suddenly the PC loses a level and loses the feat and thus we have to write the cohort out again? Sure you can do it, but it would be better IMO if you didn't have to.
I've actually always given players the option of level loss or Con loss on the above schedule after I'd introduced the change (you could say re-introduced, since it was a staple of earlier editions) - and every time as far as I can remember the players have chosen the Con loss.
Cheers
wildstarsreach
First Post
Okay, I'm not going to comment on specific posts but this list comments in General.
Ego Whip, Great power. Most players are stupid (Not reviewing properly) in regards to charisma for 3.5. It's a waste stat. Most NPC's built for prestige classes unless charisma is a primary stat leave it at an 8. This makes you bait for the this kind of attack. It is not an overpowering power if players were to build their characters with a little less min max and a little more with realistic character, they would be better for it. One thing I would use if multiple Ego whips are use is that the maximum amount can anly be the maximum by dice. If you 7 points with 1 3d4 attack and the 9 points with another, it would be left at 12 points total.
I've been playing 3.5 for a year and a half. They were playing with point buy and fixed hit points. 28 pts buy, max HP at first and then alternating average HP based on die type. This takes the luck factor out of it. I've always been generally luckier than most. This keeps extreme luck from imbalancing the game.
The penalties for dying aren't that extreme. You lose a level but with 3-10 encounters you catch up on the experience. The only real penalty if the -1 con.
When you come to a new group, it's your job to fit in as it is unfair to make 3-5 people come to your way of thinking. He should adapt to the group. It would cause less problems and more enjoyment.
My 2(25) cents.
Ego Whip, Great power. Most players are stupid (Not reviewing properly) in regards to charisma for 3.5. It's a waste stat. Most NPC's built for prestige classes unless charisma is a primary stat leave it at an 8. This makes you bait for the this kind of attack. It is not an overpowering power if players were to build their characters with a little less min max and a little more with realistic character, they would be better for it. One thing I would use if multiple Ego whips are use is that the maximum amount can anly be the maximum by dice. If you 7 points with 1 3d4 attack and the 9 points with another, it would be left at 12 points total.
I've been playing 3.5 for a year and a half. They were playing with point buy and fixed hit points. 28 pts buy, max HP at first and then alternating average HP based on die type. This takes the luck factor out of it. I've always been generally luckier than most. This keeps extreme luck from imbalancing the game.
The penalties for dying aren't that extreme. You lose a level but with 3-10 encounters you catch up on the experience. The only real penalty if the -1 con.
When you come to a new group, it's your job to fit in as it is unfair to make 3-5 people come to your way of thinking. He should adapt to the group. It would cause less problems and more enjoyment.
My 2(25) cents.
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Kae'Yoss
First Post
wildstarsreach said:
I disagree. You might not always get an extra +1 to attack or damage, but it's hardly a waste stat.
You are of course right that many think that way.
Not IMC. A proper villain can't be a troglodyte (unless he's a troglodyte - but I don't use them as super villains)
wildstarsreach
First Post
Kae'Yoss said:
Look at the completes where they build the NPC's. Almost all of them have 8 charisma unless it is a class necessity. When I build villian, the get the charisma that is appropriate to facilitate what his/her goals are.
