D&D 5E Eldritch Knight: Better Arcane Archer than the subclass?

[MechaPilot]

As and example, it has the name arcane in the title, but doesn't use spells.

I sectioned this part out because it bears special mention. I really like that the arcane archer has magical abilities that are not spells. The moment you make a magical ability a spell, it becomes potentially available to other casters depending on whether or not it gets added to other class spell lists.

 

[MechaPilot]

After looking over the Eldritch Knight, it looks like that subclass can make a better Arcane Archer than the actual subclass. Now unfortunately, the Eldritch Knight doesn't have an "Imbue Arrow" ability, but neither does the Arcane Archer subclass. What the Eldritch Knight does allow is the mixing of archery and spells. I can use my bow and still be able to throw a Fireball when needed, or actually buff myself.

I just think Wizards dropped the ball with the Arcane Archer.

Arcane Archer has a kind of Imbue Arrow ability. The special arcane arrows (Bursting, Shadow, Piercing, etc) all create a magical arrow that's imbued with a magical effect beyond just dealing extra damage to the target of your attack roll.

The EK is good at mixing combat and casting, but it doesn't effectively channel its magic through weapon attacks. The paladin is a much better EK in many ways simply by virtue of the smite feature and access to buffing spells.

 

[MechaPilot]

I agree that Arcane Archer as written is a worse arcane archer than the EK.

Can you explain that assessment to me? I'm not asking you to justify your opinion or anything, I just want to understand it.

From my perspective, the Arcane Archer (AA) is a more effective AA than the Eldritch Knight (EK). My rationale for this is that the AA is able to directly use magic to deal more damage and create magical effects through its attacks, while the EK simply mixes the use of magic in with the use of weapons.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

Can you explain that assessment to me? I'm not asking you to justify your opinion or anything, I just want to understand it.

From my perspective, the Arcane Archer (AA) is a more effective AA than the Eldritch Knight (EK). My rationale for this is that the AA is able to directly use magic to deal more damage and create magical effects through its attacks, while the EK simply mixes the use of magic in with the use of weapons.

The crux of it is this:

The Arcane Archer can make magical arrow attacks twice per short rest, or slightly more often at 15th level. The Eldritch Knight can make magical arrow attacks pretty much all day long starting as early as 7th level. So if you want to shoot magical arrows instead of regular arrows (half damage against demons, no damage against werewolves, etc.), you pretty much want to be an Eldritch Knight, not an Arcane Archer.

There are some ancillary issues too like the Eldritch Knight getting to summon his bow magically and having some other archery-relevant spells available to him, but the core of it is really that. If Arcane Archers just got to count all of their ranged attacks as magical it would go a looong way toward providing them with an actual niche, despite the relative lameness of their actual Arcane Shot options.

 

[MechaPilot]

The crux of it is this:

The Arcane Archer can make magical arrow attacks twice per short rest, or slightly more often at 15th level. The Eldritch Knight can make magical arrow attacks pretty much all day long starting as early as 7th level. So if you want to shoot magical arrows instead of regular arrows (half damage against demons, no damage against werewolves, etc.), you pretty much want to be an Eldritch Knight, not an Arcane Archer.

There are some ancillary issues too like the Eldritch Knight getting to summon his bow magically and having some other archery-relevant spells available to him, but the core of it is really that. If Arcane Archers just got to count all of their ranged attacks as magical it would go a looong way toward providing them with an actual niche, despite the relative lameness of their actual Arcane Shot options.

Thank you for the reply.

I agree with you that the AA should be able to summon their bow, and that their shots should count as magical. I hadn't considered that aspect, and it's definitely something that's missing from the subclass. Those things would make a great replacement for the crappy Archer's Lore feature, and I'll probably implement those changes at my table (because I already allow the AA subclass, although no one has had to make a new character recently, so the new stuff hasn't seen use yet).

 

[Xeviat]

Thank you for the reply.

I agree with you that the AA should be able to summon their bow, and that their shots should count as magical. I hadn't considered that aspect, and it's definitely something that's missing from the subclass. Those things would make a great replacement for the crappy Archer's Lore feature, and I'll probably implement those changes at my table (because I already allow the AA subclass, although no one has had to make a new character recently, so the new stuff hasn't seen use yet).

Very easy to add. 7th level's ability is weak enough that magic damage could be added. I'd simply let them summon an arrow instantly upon drawing their bowstring. Summoning a weapon is nearly a ribbon ability for EKs, and could easily be included.


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[MechaPilot]

Very easy to add. 7th level's ability is weak enough that magic damage could be added. I'd simply let them summon an arrow instantly upon drawing their bowstring. Summoning a weapon is nearly a ribbon ability for EKs, and could easily be included.


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7th level's ability is truly nothing at my table, because I don't ordinarily track ammunition usage. But, I really dislike the Archer's Lore bonus skill feature. It's basically, make your archer a budget ranger, even though the outlander background would be better for that in every way.

 

[Gadget]

You know, I've been re-flavoring certain faylocks' Eldritch Blasts as summoning a magical, glowing bow and arrow that they fire at the target; I think it works fairly well, barring the range limitation (though there is an Invocation to increase that). Just a few more Invocations to modify Eldritch Blast, and it would make a pretty decent Arcane Archer.

 

[gyor]

Arcane Archer isn't suppose to be a spellcaster, in someways they're closer magically to an artificer then a wizard, they imbue items with magic, they don't cast spells. I do argree that all their archery attacks should count as magically, but otherwise I love the subclass.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

7th level's ability is truly nothing at my table, because I don't ordinarily track ammunition usage. But, I really dislike the Archer's Lore bonus skill feature. It's basically, make your archer a budget ranger, even though the outlander background would be better for that in every way.

Is there any way to be sure that your players aren't tracking ammunition usage? After all, it's not normally a DM's job to track it anyway so they might not even tell you if they were doing it.

If they are, the 7th level ability could be attractive to someone without you realizing it.