Eldritch Knight core class - help me build

[trav_laney]

While some are under the impression that most of the new core classes should instead be prestige classes (and there is certainly nothing wrong with that point of view,) I think that it should be the other way around...I think that a lot of prestige classes out there should be core classes instead. Maybe it is just a throwback to the days of "kits."

I would like to create an arcane fighter style of a character, using the Eldritch Knight prestige class as a base. (I know that there are many new "arcane fighter" classes out there already, but I don't care for them too much.) So before I spent a lot of time doing a formal write-up, I wanted to get some feedback from the gamers in this forum.

These are my notes. And as always, if someone has already done this, please point me in the proper direction.

Hit Dice:        d6
Base Attack:     full
Saves:           Good fort
Class Skills:    Concentration, Craft, Decipher Script, Jump, Knowledge
                 (arcana), Knowledge (nobility and royalty), Ride, Sense Motive,
                 Spellcraft, Swim.
Skill Points:    2 + Int modifier
Weapon prof      all simple and martial
Armor prof:      light
Shield prof:     none

Class Features:
----------------------------------
- Bonus spells and save DCs based on Charisma (Intelligence?)
- Spells spontaneously cast, as sorcerer (or prepared, as wizard?)
- Spells per day/spells known as bard.
- Use sor/wiz spell list.
- Can cast spells in light armor with no %ASF.
- Bonus feat at 1st level, and every 5th level.
  These bonus feats must be Item Creation, Metamagic, or Fighter feats.

I think it is balanced for the most part, but the thing that a lot of players are going to trip over is that the class cannot learn 7th, 8th, or 9th level sor/wiz spells (thanks to the "as a bard" spell progression.) But I thought that it was a lot better option than cutting the caster level. What do you think?

Another thing is, should I make it a spontaneous caster ala the sorcerer, or a prepared caster ala wizard? I know it is a matter of personal preference, but I don't want to make it "player's choice."

 

[JRR_Talking]

arcane non-spontaneous, int based spells and no armoured casting. most new classes seem cha/armoured spellcasters.

maybe he could wield a staff and sword as TWF? like the prestige picture and gandalf!

I also agree that most prestige should be full lvl 20's. never use prestiges, i dont mind having a 100 base classes!

John

 

[JiCi]

So an Eldritch Knight can cast up to 6th-level spells, is that it ?

Perhaps you could get rid of the bonus feats, BUT allows this class to cast 7th and 8th spells.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[Arkhandus]

No way. That's no where near equivalent. The class gets full Base Attack Bonus and a decent spellcasting progression. 6th-level spells are still potent enough.

I say the class is fine as-is, with the caveat that it should only get 3 bonus feats (1st, 10th, and 20th). Spontaneous, Charisma-based, and no-ASF-in-light-armor is fine. With the aforementioned feat change (they have a much broader feat selection than the wizard or the fighter, and 5 bonus feats seems like too much in place of just bardic music and bardic knowledge). The class is more or less on-par with the bard, but I think it's too effective with 5 bonus feats and should be brought down to 2 or 3 bonus feats. It has significant combat advantages over the bard, being much more directly useful (though lacking much of the bard's broad powers of only-subjectively/situationally-useful manipulation/influence, via skills, bardic knowledge, bardic music, and a few of the bard-exclusive spells).

 

[llamatron2000]

This class would be broken if it allowed casting of 7th and 8th level spells, JiCi.

Can't have your cake and eat it too.
Besides, level 6 is the final level where fighter-relevant spells show up.


Here's a rough outline of what I think the class should be. I based this on the paladin, giving it arcane strike, strung out the wizard progression levels 1-12 over 20 levels, and gave it armored casting, and a few fighter/wizard feats. I think its pretty on par with ranger or paladin.



Fighter BAB
Good will save.
D6 HD*edited from D8, which in retrospect is too much.
Proficient with simple, martial weapons
Proficient with all armor
Gains spells, casts like a wizard.


Spells per day and class features.

1 3/1 , arcane strike(ignore prerequisites), armored mage(10%)
2 4/1
3 4/2 , fighter/wizard feat
4 4/2/1 armored mage(20%)
5 4/3/1
6 4/3/2 , fighter/wizard feat
7 4/3/2/1 armored mage(30%)
8 4/3/3/1
9 4/3/3/2 , fighter/wizard feat
10 4/4/3/2 armored mage(30%)
11 4/4/3/2/1
12 4/4/3/3/1 fighter/wizard feat
13 4/4/3/3/2 armored mage(40%)
14 4/4/4/3/2/1
15 4/4/4/3/3/1 fighter/wizard feat
16 4/4/4/3/3/2 armored mage(50%)
17 4/4/4/4/3/2
18 4/4/4/4/3/2/1 fighter/wizard feat
19 4/4/4/4/3/3/1
20 4/4/4/4/3/3/2 unemcumbered mage(ignore spell failure chance from armor/shield)

 

[Arkhandus]

Your version gives way too much though, llamatron. Fighter BAB, 1st-level spells right at 1st-level, a bonus feat at 1st-level, and effectively no ASF from leather armor or whatever. Then another 6 bonus feats over time (more than a wizard, with more choices too), full elimination of arcane spell failure, slightly better casting progression than a bard, no limited spell list like the bard, and no focus on Charisma (the least useful ability score).

Your version is a fighter with lower Hit Dice and bard spellcasting tacked on, with slight tweaking to be more wizard-like, and a few feats given up for full spellcasting in armor.

 

[Old_Skool]

Hmm...

Spontaneous casting seems to fit the idea better. Bookworms with battle-axes? Loremasters with bastard swords? Nah. But a charismatic, unpredictable, hot-tempered dude with a rapier and a shield spell sounds good. Go with Charisma, my man.

 

[trav_laney]

Here's a rough outline of what I think the class should be. I based this on the paladin, giving it arcane strike, strung out the wizard progression levels 1-12 over 20 levels, and gave it armored casting, and a few fighter/wizard feats. I think its pretty on par with ranger or paladin.

This isn't a bad start, but it is more similar to a core-class version of the Spellsword, rather than the Eldritch Knight. I might glean some of your ideas if I ever decide to make a core class from it. As-written, though, it might be a little too powerful.

maybe he could wield a staff and sword as TWF? like the prestige picture and gandalf!

That's what the bonus feats are for. If the EK wants to focus on TWF, he has special training that will let him do so. Personally, I would be putting those bonus feats to good use with attack spells...Weapon Focus (ray), Improved Critical (touch), etc. But to each his own.

Perhaps you could get rid of the bonus feats, BUT allows this class to cast 7th and 8th spells.

If I did that, I would also have to lower the BAT and drop the spells per day...probably something along the lines of sorcerer -1. I decided that the class would be more fun this way.

 

[trav_laney]

Okay, here is the first draft...comment, critique, and feedback are all appreciated. My design notes are below.

Core Class: Eldritch Knight

Hit Dice: d6

Class Skills: the Eldritch Knight’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Bluff (Cha), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Jump (Str), Knowledge (arcana) (Int), Knowledge (nobility and royalty)(Int), Ride (Dex), Sense Motive (Wis), Spellcraft (Int), and Swim (Str).

Skill Points at each level: 2 + Int modifier.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Eldritch Knights are proficient with all simple and martial weapons, and with light armor. They are not proficient with medium or heavy armor, nor are they proficient with any shield.

An Eldritch Knight can cast arcane spells while wearing light armor without incurring the normal arcane spell failure chance. However, like any other arcane spellcaster, an Eldritch Knight wearing medium or heavy armor or using a shield incurs a chance of arcane spell failure if the spell being cast has a somatic component. A multiclass Eldritch Knight still incurs the normal arcane spell failure chance for arcane spells received from other classes.

Bonus Feats: At 1st level, and every 5th level thereafter (5th, 10th, 15th, etc.) the Eldritch Knight gains a bonus feat from the Fighter Bonus Feat list. The character must still meet any prerequisites for these bonus feats, including levels of the Fighter class for the Weapon Specialization, Greater Weapon Focus, and Greater Weapon Specialization feats.

Spells: An Eldritch Knight casts arcane spells, which are drawn from the sorcerer/wizard spell list. He can cast any spell he knows without preparing it ahead of time. To learn or cast a spell, a Eldritch Knight must have a Charisma score equal to at least 10 + the spell. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a Eldritch Knight’s spell is 10 + the spell level + the Eldritch Knight’s Charisma modifier. The Eldritch Knight learns and casts spells in the same manner as a Bard (in the SRD), except that the Eldritch Knight's spells do not require singing, music, or recital (though many still require verbal components).

TABLE: The Eldritch Knight
                                                ------Spells per day-----
Lv   BAT  Fort   Ref  Will  Special             0   1   2   3   4   5   6
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
1    +1     +2    +0   +0   Bonus Feat, spells  2   -   -   -   -   -   -
2    +2     +3    +0   +0                       3   0   -   -   -   -   -
3    +3     +3    +1   +1                       3   1   -   -   -   -   -
4    +4     +4    +1   +1                       3   2   0   -   -   -   -
5    +5     +4    +1   +1   Bonus Feat          3   3   1   -   -   -   -
6    +6     +5    +2   +2                       3   3   2   -   -   -   -
7    +7     +5    +2   +2                       3   3   3   0   -   -   -
8    +8     +6    +2   +2                       3   3   3   1   -   -   -
9    +9     +6    +3   +3                       3   3   3   2   -   -   -
10   +10    +7    +3   +3   Bonus Feat          3   3   3   3   0   -   -
11   +11    +7    +3   +3                       3   3   3   3   1   -   -
12   +12    +8    +4   +4                       3   3   3   3   2   -   -
13   +13    +8    +4   +4                       3   3   3   3   3   0   -
14   +14    +9    +4   +4                       4   3   3   3   3   1   -
15   +15    +9    +5   +5   Bonus Feat          4   4   3   3   3   2   -
16   +16    +10   +5   +5                       4   4   4   3   3   3   0
17   +17    +10   +5   +5                       4   4   4   4   3   3   1
18   +18    +11   +6   +6                       4   4   4   4   4   3   2
19   +19    +11   +6   +6                       4   4   4   4   4   4   3
20   +20    +12   +6   +6   Bonus Feat          4   4   4   4   4   4   4
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Spells Known
Lv   0   1   2   3   4   5   6
------------------------------
1    4   -   -   -   -   -   -
2    5   2   -   -   -   -   -
3    6   3   -   -   -   -   -
4    6   3   2   -   -   -   -
5    6   4   3   -   -   -   -
6    6   4   3   -   -   -   -
7    6   4   4   2   -   -   -
8    6   4   4   3   -   -   -
9    6   4   4   3   -   -   -
10   6   4   4   4   2   -   -
11   6   4   4   4   3   -   -
12   6   4   4   4   3   -   -
13   6   4   4   4   4   2   -
14   6   4   4   4   4   3   -
15   6   4   4   4   4   3   -
16   6   5   4   4   4   4   2
17   6   5   5   4   4   4   3
18   6   5   5   5   4   4   3
19   6   5   5   5   5   4   4
20   6   5   5   5   5   5   4
------------------------------

About the spells: I agree with the masses--this should be a charisma-based spellcaster.

About the skills: Since I am making this class more sorcerer-like and less wizard-like, I replaced Decipher Script with Bluff.

About the feats: Since this is a less-wizardly class, I removed the metamagic feats and item creation feats from the list of bonus feats. After all, even the prestige version of this class doesn't get MM or IC feats. It should have been a no-brainer.

Familiars: I am kicking around the idea of letting this class call a familiar. What do you think?

 

[Old_Skool]

Familiars: I am kicking around the idea of letting this class call a familiar. What do you think?

Meh. I'm not a big fan of familiars at all, so I say no.

Too bad about cutting the item creation feats. This would be a great choice for a "magic sword/armor maker" class. I'd say let him choose item creation feats as well as fighter feats, whenever he gains a bonus feat.