Eldritch Knight strategies

Kobold Stew

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I'm looking for ideas on how to play an Eldritch Knight in combat, without using the traditional (as I take it) approach of buffing-self-to-the-gills then going in with a sword.

Instead, spells as offence; spells as terrain-management; whatever.

Or is the EK just a self-buffer?

Thanks.
 

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Personaly, I like EKs who are ranged experts. They can use a good DEX to their advantage much more than a good STR - as it opens up all those ray possibilities.

As for some tactics regardless of melee/ranged choice. Everyone likes a good fireball before meeting one's foes in battle. Fireball not your style? What about a good sleep, stinking cloud, or even obscuring mist (and the EK has blindfight as a feat or faerie fire prepared)?

A well placed wall of force/stone/iron/ice/whatever is nice as it can narrow how many opponents can get to the party at once.

What about an EK that uses battlefield teleportation to help him get into a flanking position?

Always nice to have the ability to resist (or outright ignore) certain energy types. Or ... be an abjurer and open up the whole "Protection from" spells.

Rather than self buff - what about cursing your enemies? [This requires a good stat in the caster's ability, though, as DCs will come into play regularily]

Did I mention an EK who hails down damage with his bow and ray attacks?

What about an illusion master who makes it hard on his opponents by giving them more than one target to select from? Or just confuses them and makes them think there are more people to fight than there really are?

I can keep going ... but I'll leave some room for others....
 

Kobold Stew said:
I'm looking for ideas on how to play an Eldritch Knight in combat, without using the traditional (as I take it) approach of buffing-self-to-the-gills then going in with a sword.

Instead, spells as offence; spells as terrain-management; whatever.

Or is the EK just a self-buffer?

The problem I've run into is that there aren't all that many actions available in any given combat. If my EK buffs himself when he knows combat is coming, then he can go in swinging or use his bow during combat, and I'm getting use out of both his spells and his fighter level and good BAB.

If I just throw spells, I'm not really using the fighter part of my abilities at all. So if that was what I wanted to do, I should have stuck with a focused caster progression, and I wouldn't be two caster levels behind the full caster in the party.

So yeah, an eldritch knight seems to work best mainly as a fighter who uses his spells to make himself a better, more versatile fighter. Better mobility (fly, teleporting) when necessary, some terrain control (area denial or obscuring) when helpful, ability to polymorph self to fight better is always nice. Attack spells when an area effect would be useful or the enemy isn't terrifically strikable. Some good utility spells for non-fighting challenges. And so on.

His fighting skills definitely don't make him a better caster, that's for sure. For instance, rays tend to be ranged touch attacks, so it's not even like the good BAB benefits him that much. If you want to be a better caster, be a straight wizard or sorceror.
 

One way to take advantage of the EK's BAB and combat feats is to use rays and orbs. You can take point blank, precise, and you'll eventually have the BAB for improved precise shot, which is a big improvement over most ranged touch casters. I'd also work in one level of spellsword, so you can wear a mithral chain shirt and mithral buckler without penalty.

Good spell choices include not just rays and orbs, but also anything else that's going to keep your enemy at bay so you can blast them, like black tentacles, spike stones (if that's available to wizards, I don't have my books handy), or summon critters.

Depending on how many optional rules you use in your game, one interesting option could be to use the Unearthed Arcana variant conjurer to get summoning as a standard action. Round 1 summon something to tank (even better if you can spare the feats for Augment Summoning), then start blasting. Since many attack spells are conjurations with the addition of Complete Arcane, you can use your lower level conjuration slots for blast, and your higher level conjuration slots for summoning.
 

My previous PC was a Paladin2/Warmage4/Havoc Mage 1/Spellsword 1/Eldritch Knight X.

He has Battlecaster feat and wearing mithral heavy plate. And with Practiced Spellcaster feat, he had full caster level.

When opponents are in far range, he simply used attack spells. In melee, he either used Battlecast special ability of Havoc Mage to cast a true strike and make an attack in the same turn, usually converting full-BAB into x2 damage bonus via power attack. Or, used Arcane Strike (Complete Warrior), or both. His choice of weapon was great falchion which has 18-20 threat range, 15-20 with keen ability. Bonus damages from Power Attack are not dice, so could be multiplied when he hits a critical.

Sorcerer or Wizard based eldritch knight can combine Arcane Strike with Wraithstrike spell (Complete Adventurer) and that is quite efficient indeed.
 

I'll go out on a limb and say that you're better off making a melee combatant out of an eldritch knight. Far better off. If all you want is to hit with ray/orb spells, you're not getting much out of Eldritch Knight. By 10th level, you've picked up two points of BAB vis a vis a straight class wizard and a couple feats. That will make a small difference in the amount of times you hit. On the other hand, you've also lost two caster levels. That means that, for every empowered scorching ray you cast, a straight-class wizard can cast either a quickened magic missile plus a scorching ray or a maximized scorching ray. Given that, by tenth level, wizards focusing on ranged touch attacks generally don't miss anyway, I don't think trading down to empower for two points of BAB is worth it.

The same is true of summonings. If you pursue that route, you'll be summoning lantern archons and howlers while your single-classed companions summon hound archons and brown bears. Using summonings to hold enemies back for more blasting is just combining two ways to be subpar at once.

In melee, on the other hand, you have a lot more synergy. That synergy can be divided into two sections: games where wraithstrike is allowed and games where it isn't. (IMO, sensible DMs will disallow wraithstrike--it's FAR too powerful for a 2nd level spell and would still be worthwhile at 6th level). In games where wraithstrike is allowed, wraithstrike+Power Attack is really all you need. But, you can tack on some more synergy easily enough. Blink is an excellent defensive spell, but it works wonders for offense as well. Deny your foes their dex bonus and all they have left is deflection (and luck if they have a staff of power or something) when you cast wraithstrike. Arcane Strike a decent spell and you get even more damage. If you have cleave, you'll probably get to do that damage yet again (my 16th level character dropped a Cornugon from full to dead in one round using this trick and followed it up by doing the same to an Angel of Decay in his next game). If you extend the wraithstrike spell, you can make two full attacks and follow the second round up with a quickened whirling blade to get the most attacks possible out of the spell.

Without wraithstrike, you've still got a lot to work with. The dancing blades spell from the spell compendium would be worthwhile at mid levels. A 3rd level spell that gives two attacks at caster level+int bonus for weapon die plus int bonus damage is definitely worth using when your main weapon is only doing a little bit more than that. With blink (eventually greater blink) and arcane strike, you can still get a decent power attack in on most creatures and on the ones you don't, you're still at least as well off as an ordinary fighter. Applying greater magic weapon to your weapons will enable you to focus on enhancements like wounding and sacred without sacrificing plus to hit and damage. Using see invisibility will give you an edge on most fighters (who don't really have a good way to deal with invisible foes). You could also use Phantom steed and make flying lance charges. And, as long as you prepped a solid fog, web, glitterdust, freezing fog, vitriolic sphere (Complete Arcane version--the spell compendium version is pretty useless), etc, you can control the battlefield. And with spells like mass fire shield, you can give your allies a bit of love too.

And of course, there's old standbyes like alter self into troglodyte form for +6 natural armor (and then dragonskin for another +5 if you're high enough level to spend a 3rd level slot on more AC). With shield, you're looking at a pretty impressive AC (especially if you take a one level dip into spellsword and wear a mithral chain shirt).

Finally, if you're a fighter wizard, you almost certainly have the Int for Combat Expertise and Improved Trip. And, you'll notice that ray of enfeeblement and enervation will really make a mess of your enemies' strength checks....
 

Kobold Stew said:
I'm looking for ideas on how to play an Eldritch Knight in combat, without using the traditional (as I take it) approach of buffing-self-to-the-gills then going in with a sword.

Instead, spells as offence; spells as terrain-management; whatever.

Or is the EK just a self-buffer?

Well, the advantage of the Eldritch Knight over the regular arcanist is the ability to use weapons effectively. Obviously, buff spells help a lot to make weapon-use worthwhile, without them they are still weak combatants.

But if you want to use spells in a more offensive manner, than Eldritch Knight is simply not the right class, because you will only gain advantages you do not need (Weapon Proficiencies, BAB), while losing abilities, that would be immensely helpful (Spell Level, Caster Level).

I don't think the character you have in mind is an Eldritch Knight, but just a traditional spellcaster (oh, the irony).

Bye
Thanee
 

Well... one thing the EK has on standard wizard is that when you've run out of spells, you are better at picking up little bunny foo foo and bashin him on the head.
 

That was my suspicion: that except as self-buffer, you are always a stronger combatant with the two extra spell levels. Rays, fireballs, whatever. I see Elder Basilisk's Wrathstrike argument--thanks; blink and see invis are viable. Maybe casting illusions is the answer.

(Aside: can an illusion of a sumoned monster flank?)

More ideas are of course welcome.
 

Well - I don't completely buy the "straight spellcasters are better than EKs" argument. Clearly, they get more spells and at a higher level because they have more class levels. I'm not arguing with that part at all, because it is clearly true! :)

However, if you are allowed the Complete Books, take the Practiced Spellcaster feat. That'll give you up to four "free" caster levels -or- your current hit die (whichever comes first.) So, a wizard 5/fighter 1/EK 6 would essentially cast spells with a caster level of 12 - just like a wizard 12 would. The spells would be no more difficult or easy to shrug off their effects. The difference would be that the wizard 12 would have access to higher level spells.

That is a significant difference, but it is different that saying the straight wizard is a better caster. They are a more versatile caster, but the spells they cast are at the same DC - so to speak.

I know it is splitting hairs there, but just wanted to make that clear.

Edit: So that really makes the question "Is my character about 9th level spells?" If they are ... well then you are more interested in the spells so go with a class that grants full casting perks. But if you aren't about the 9th level spells then the EK is just fine - especially with the Practiced Spellcaster feat. And it works just fine as a ranged/ray/orb combatant, especially with the Practiced Spellcaster feat. Don't let anyone tell you any differently.
 
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