Elements of Magic: Questions for the Designer

[RangerWickett]

Bands of Steel
Evoke Ice 3/Create Metal 1/Gen 1
Total MP: 5
Range: Close
Area: one creature up to Large size
Duration: 1 minute
Save: none
Spell Resistance: yes
Description: The caster creates bands of metal which with a successful ranged touch attack surround the target and render it immoble for the duration. The creature can use a full round action to attempt to break free with a successful Strength check (DC 20).
Costs: 3 MP moderate ice special effect, 1 MP create metal, 1 MP range.

Assuming that that is the correct way to create that effect, my questions become 1) Do I have to suffocate the creature (I assume not), 2) How to increase the strength of the binding (requiring more than DC 20 to break free)?

The two thoughts I had were to somehow use the Intensify feat or to somehow use the Infuse spell, but I wanted some feedback.

I would use Create Metal/Move Force to create manacles, bands, and chains, and then use them to entwine the person. Create Metal 1/Move Force 3 would let you create a large chain that could grapple with the effective strength of 30.

The Evoke side effects are not there to replace other effects, but rather to make Evoke spell lists different from each other.

 

[RangerWickett]

I have question about the Evoke Space side effect. For a Moderate effect you can affect either etheral or material and you get to choose which. Did you intentionally not create a Major or Extreme side effect that allows the spell to affect creatures in either plane simultaneously? If it wasn't intentional, would the effect be Major or Extreme?

Thanks again!

I didn't think about that. I suppose Major would work fine to affect both. That would mess a bit with Evoke Force, but it's okay, I think.

 

[astriemer]

I didn't think about that. I suppose Major would work fine to affect both. That would mess a bit with Evoke Force, but it's okay, I think.

How so? Evoke Force affects Incorporeal and solid, not Ethereal, right?

On that line, See Invisible (from the standard d20 rules) allows you to see creatures that are ethereal. Is Scry, Special Vision what would let you do so in EoM? If so, what is the cost? If not, how would it be done?

 

[RangerWickett]

I thought incorporeal things were ethereal.

As for seeing ethereal things, I'd toss it in along with Blindsense. Not fully accurate as per the rules, but it's about the right power level.

 

[astriemer]

I thought incorporeal things were ethereal.

As for seeing ethereal things, I'd toss it in along with Blindsense. Not fully accurate as per the rules, but it's about the right power level.

Many similarities, but according to the DMG the difference is the incorporeal are on the material plane but have no physical form, while etheral things are not on the material plane at all. There are minor game effect differences as well. For example, you have a 50% chance to hit an incorporeal target (with any magic weapon or spell) while you cannot attack ethereal targets except with force effects.

 

[Kemrain]

Some interesting Metamagic ideas in the House Rules forum.

http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?p=1666033#post1666033

I think, in particular, the Insidious Magic feat is a good one for Charm and Compel Specialists. Doesn't step on the toes of the Subtle Compulsion ability too much, and it's especially useful on non-casters.

INSIDIOUS MAGIC [GENERAL]
Requirements: Subtle Magic, caster level 10+, Bluff 9 ranks

Benefit: If you cast a spell against a target and the target succeeds on their saving throw they only realize a spell has been cast at them if they make a successful Spellcraft check (DC 20 + spell level).
Normal: If the target of a spell succeeds on their saving throw they automatically know that a spell was cast upon them, though they do not know more specific than that.

The idea's a good one, even if that Spellcraft check might not be right. I think this would make a superb Charm or Compel Specialist feat.

- Kemrain the Insidious.

 

[astriemer]

A few more questions...

1) Attack Bonuses
How do I create an effect that grants an attack bonus that isn't an enhancement bonus?

I understand that Infuse Force will give an enhancement attack bonus, but what if I want to create, for example, a morale bonus (ala Bless), or an insight bonus (ala True Strike), etc.

Would I have to combine Infuse Force with another spell list? For example to get a morale bonus use Infuse Force and Charm Humanoid? For insight combine Infuse Force with Divination?

Or would I just use another spell list (such as Divination or Charm Humanoid) and cost the effect as if for Infuse Force?

2) Attack Only Bonus
Also, would there be any cost reduction to just get a damage bonus or to just get an attack bonus with Infuse Force?

3) Limited Save Bonus
Also from the standard Bless spell. How does one give a save bonus versus only one effect (rather than versus one creature, alignment, or element)? Would that be Abjure Force, but because of the limitation use the Other column or is a discount not valid as you can change the limitation too easily during casting?

4) Area Dispel
In your example (Example Four, page 50) of Area Dispel you go through the mechanics of attempting to dispel each of the four spells on Barbara. How do you determine what spell is targeted by the dispel first, second, etc.? Is it choice of the dispeller, dispellee, or strongest effect to weakest, or something else?

Thanks again!

P.S. Any further update on when Lyceian Arcana is expected out?

 

[astriemer]

Just got finished reading the Planar Handbook and I have a bunch more questions

1) Is positive energy roughly equivelent to life energy and negative energy to death energy? For example, if I cast Evoke Death on someone with a Negative Energy Protection spell on, would they be protected?

2) Would you use Transform [Alignment] or Create [Alignment] to create holy water?

3) What effect would let you breathe earth (or not breathe at all for that matter)? Move Water lets you breathe water, would Move Earth let you breathe earth?

4) There are a handful of spells in the book that become normal spells that now function across planes (alarm, message and Rary's telepathic bond for example). What effect would let us create these spells? Move Space? Scry?

5) The spell Avoid Planar Effects allows one to ignore the natural effects of a specific plane (that would harm a non-native) (such as excessive heat, lack of air, poisonous fumes, emenations of positive or negative energy, chaotic deafening noise, etc.) but it does not protect you from attacks that might be related (fireball, suffocation spells, etc.). Would this effect best be simulated using a Transform Outsider spell (Strong Defenses only, no actual creature type change) or something else?

6) BTW-Does Abjure Air protect you from poisonous gas damage attacks (such as green dragon breath)?

And a few questions not related to Planar Handbook
7) How would you create a spell that transforms/coats a weapon in a special substance? Create Metal would let me create a silvered or adamantine weapon, but what if I want to add the silvered quality to my existing weapon (or to my wolf's claws). Would that be a Transform Metal? If so, how would you cost it out in MP?

8) There are a handful of spells now that grant the equivalent of feats (proficiencies, Endurance, Improved Initiative) or that grant class abilities (smite evil, extra uses of summon mount, evasion, sneak attack). How would you create these effects in general? Or would each one be created uniquely? If so, how would you specifically grant a proficiency with a weapon? Increase initiative? or grant evasion?

9) How would you simulate spells with a component cost? Could you use the component cost (gp, xp, ability damage) to increase the effective MP available for the spell? If so, what kind of ratio would you use?

Thanks ever so much!
rEOM rules!

 

[RangerWickett]

A few more questions...

1) Attack Bonuses
How do I create an effect that grants an attack bonus that isn't an enhancement bonus?

I understand that Infuse Force will give an enhancement attack bonus, but what if I want to create, for example, a morale bonus (ala Bless), or an insight bonus (ala True Strike), etc.

You can get a mild morale bonus from Charm, creating bravery. Insight bonuses aren't available. Part of the reason is that the Infuse spells can grant bonuses higher than that which is available by core spells. Instead of casting a lot of low-level spells for different types of bonus, just spend a lot of MP on one spell.

2) Attack Only Bonus
Also, would there be any cost reduction to just get a damage bonus or to just get an attack bonus with Infuse Force?

It's not in the rules, but the GM might want to make an allowance for it. There was only so much stuff we could put in the book without the system getting cluttered. Heck, if you wanted, you could make a spell that just grants a bonus to grapple checks made against reptilians, but it's easier to have the spell lists have a reasonable number of options without being cluttered.

3) Limited Save Bonus
Also from the standard Bless spell. How does one give a save bonus versus only one effect (rather than versus one creature, alignment, or element)? Would that be Abjure Force, but because of the limitation use the Other column or is a discount not valid as you can change the limitation too easily during casting?

Again, it's up to the GM. There are enough examples of how the rules work for it to not be hard to figure out what a fair cost would be if you only get a Fort save or only a Reflex save.

4) Area Dispel
In your example (Example Four, page 50) of Area Dispel you go through the mechanics of attempting to dispel each of the four spells on Barbara. How do you determine what spell is targeted by the dispel first, second, etc.? Is it choice of the dispeller, dispellee, or strongest effect to weakest, or something else?

Highest MP cost first.

P.S. Any further update on when Lyceian Arcana is expected out?

~late August-ish~

 

[RangerWickett]

Just got finished reading the Planar Handbook and I have a bunch more questions

1) Is positive energy roughly equivelent to life energy and negative energy to death energy? For example, if I cast Evoke Death on someone with a Negative Energy Protection spell on, would they be protected?

That's about right.

2) Would you use Transform [Alignment] or Create [Alignment] to create holy water?

Infuse Good.

3) What effect would let you breathe earth (or not breathe at all for that matter)? Move Water lets you breathe water, would Move Earth let you breathe earth?

Move Earth lets you move through solid objects like they're less solid. You cannot breathe inside these objects, however. You can always use Create Air to create air in your mouth or around your body.

4) There are a handful of spells in the book that become normal spells that now function across planes (alarm, message and Rary's telepathic bond for example). What effect would let us create these spells? Move Space? Scry?

An alarm spell would be a contingent Create Sound spell, and you could combine it with 1 MP of Scry to remote view in an adjacent dimension. I'll make a note to include a low-MP Move Space option to let you have a spell move to a coterminous dimension, or whatever the appropriate term is.

5) The spell Avoid Planar Effects allows one to ignore the natural effects of a specific plane (that would harm a non-native) (such as excessive heat, lack of air, poisonous fumes, emenations of positive or negative energy, chaotic deafening noise, etc.) but it does not protect you from attacks that might be related (fireball, suffocation spells, etc.). Would this effect best be simulated using a Transform Outsider spell (Strong Defenses only, no actual creature type change) or something else?

I would personally suggest just use the proper Abjure spell and just not worry that you get extra benefits, but a proper sort of Transform Outsider could work. Man, you guys come up with too many questions. *grin*

Honestly, no offense intended, but you are asking enough questions, I'm sure you're experienced enough to guess how to cost such things. You have learned the path, and now you must walk it yourself. Only then will your training be complete.

6) BTW-Does Abjure Air protect you from poisonous gas damage attacks (such as green dragon breath)?

Hrmmm. That's an odd one. Ability damage is a little odd to deal with. You could just as easily have a contingent Heal spell to trigger and restore ability damage whenever you're hurt. But a special Abjure Nature spell might work. There isn't any existing example of warding off ability damage, so it's hard to guess how to cost such a spell.

And a few questions not related to Planar Handbook
7) How would you create a spell that transforms/coats a weapon in a special substance? Create Metal would let me create a silvered or adamantine weapon, but what if I want to add the silvered quality to my existing weapon (or to my wolf's claws). Would that be a Transform Metal? If so, how would you cost it out in MP?

Sounds good.

8) There are a handful of spells now that grant the equivalent of feats (proficiencies, Endurance, Improved Initiative) or that grant class abilities (smite evil, extra uses of summon mount, evasion, sneak attack). How would you create these effects in general? Or would each one be created uniquely? If so, how would you specifically grant a proficiency with a weapon? Increase initiative? or grant evasion?

Maybe an Infuse spell would work to grant the knowledge of strange abilities. Infuse Time for initiative, Infuse Air to dodge with evasion, Infuse Death maybe for weapon proficiency. Be careful not to undercost unique class abilities.

9) How would you simulate spells with a component cost? Could you use the component cost (gp, xp, ability damage) to increase the effective MP available for the spell? If so, what kind of ratio would you use?

There are some rules in LA about increasing your MP limit by using components. Generally, you just get to increase your MP limit for a given spell by 1 if you spend some gp worth of stuff. I haven't fully figured out the calculations yet, but it's all based on the complications of creating charged magic items and such. Yikes.