[ELH] Manyshot and Haste

[Thanee]

Do I see that right, that you can use Manyshot twice per round with Haste for a total of 8 arrows at your highest BAB -2?

Isn't that a tad much for a non-epic feat?

Bye
Thanee

 

[Crothian]

Yes, this is allowed.

I don't know if it's too much. That woulkd depend on the game. However, that's going through a lot of arrows very fast.

Edit: Actually, you'd have to be 16+level (BAB 16+) to do this. It's nothing compared to the spellcasting ability of other classes by then.

 

[Thanee]

And what about the melee fighters?

Bye
Thanee

 

[Kae'Yoss]

You're right: you can use Manyshot twice in a round, if you're hasted, so that amounts to 8 arrows.

But there are restrictions: you can only target a single enemy within 30 feet with a manyshot attack, and precision-based damage (from sneak attack, favored enemy bonus, critical hits, even weapon specialization IFAIK) only apply to one arrow per attack, so it's not to much.

 

[Crothian]

He can attack up to four times with Haste. He can possible have critical damage on all of them and get a greater bonus to damage. Manyshot is very unclear about what damage bonuses apply. We've argued melee verse Ranged til our fingers feel off from typing.

However, Manyshot might be too strong. I think we need a solid ruling on how the damage stacks up. We had a long thrread on that and it seemed no one could agree.

So, until that happens I won't be using this feat.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

He can attack up to foce times with Haste. He can possible have critical damage on all of them and get a greater bonus to damage. Manyshot is very unclear about what damage bonuses apply.

??? foce?

Manyshot talks about a standard action. With haste, you can perform two of them (one without the movement part), so you can manyshoot twice in a round.

He could have a critical with a manyshot (or with both). If a manyshot is a critical, the bonus damage only applies to one arrow (that's clearly stated in the feat description).

And it's quite clear what damag bonuses only apply to one arrow as well: everything that's precision based. That includes favored enemy bonuses, sneak attack bonus damage, and everything that talks about "only within 30 feet, since you need precision", and that includes the +2 from weapon specialization.

The enhancement bonus from the arrows and the bow would apply to everyting. If you've got a STR bonus and a mighty composite bow, the STR bonus applies to them all as well

 

[Crothian]

I don't think precision is defined that well. Actually, there is no game definition of precision. I think your list of what works and what doesn't though it fairly accurate. There was a go side thread that argued about what worked and what doesn't.

But looking at what a 16 level character can do with this. All they need to do is hit twice and deal a total of 8d8 +112 damage. That's +5 arrows, +5 bow, and +4mighty.

However, the big thing that suggests this feat is too strong is the guy who designed it said it should work differently.

 

[Thanee]

However, the big thing that suggests this feat is too strong is the guy who designed it said it should work differently.

*LOL*

Anyways, the best feat is still Improved Manyshot, which - as written - is not available to anyone (except you make a Divine Power or Tenser's Transformation permanent somehow ) and is furthermore of no use to anyone over Manyshot!

Really, to me this feat looks more like Diablo 2 (Amazon with Multishot).

It's nice to be able to do similar bow feats, but doing that all the time (which surely would happen, if someone had the feat) would result in a ridiculous overuse (hence the Diablo 2 comparison).

Bye
Thanee

 

[Crothian]

Just another thing in the ELH that was not thought out that well. i think it's a cool feat, it just seems to require a little something extra like a few paragraphs of explaining how it works.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

I don't think precision is defined that well. Actually, there is no game definition of precision. I think your list of what works and what doesn't though it fairly accurate.

IMO, Whenever they say something like "this must be done within 30 feet" (like they do with sneak attack and weapon specialization and ranged attacks), that's precision-based stuff, and will work with only one arrow.



About the BAB 21+ situation: Just add the Epic Attack Bonus to BAB. They wrote it wrong, but clearly meant it that way. Otherwise, not only Improved Manyshot is untakeable, but several Epic PrC's as well. With BAB, they just mean Class/Level Related Bonuses, and epic Levels count for that.

But they did forget one feat in ELH: Spell Resistance. It was clearly intended to be in, but it ain't.