Emphasizing Law vs. Chaos

[Voadam]

One option is to have LE devils and LG angels as servitors of the same god fulfilling different functions. Devils torment the wicked in the afterlife, Angels preserve and reward the good. When unbridled chaos flows in and threatens Creation the god could call on all his troops, (angel, devil, mortal) to fight the incursion.

 

[Lord Zardoz]

Best analog for Law vs Chaos is gun control

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[Vraille Darkfang]

In my games, LE & LG will often work together (at least for short durations).

History Creation of my world (heavily influenced by Planescape & Spelljammer.

In the beginning there was a Crystal Sphere filled with large amounts of nothingness & small, random bits of matter floating at random throughout.

Eventually, a cosmic force, almost a conciousness, came to be & began to force these small bits of matter together into larger masses. It began to control their speed, diretion & path. Eventually these masses of organized randomness would form the celestial bodies of the world.

But, these masses did not assume their present shape willingly, nor have they accepted Order as their master.

Entropy fought their overlord, seeking aid across the planar gulfs. And, their prayer was answered, The Great Old Ones came to restore the sphere to the random nothingness that always had been, and would be again. And then battle began in earnest.

That, briefly, sums it up. Entropy & Order are the 2 Primal Quasi-sentient, Over-Gods of my World. They fight a constant war. Order to futher impart conformity to everything & Entropy to destory everything.

Thus, Lawful Evil & Lawful Good did tend to team up quite a bit. LE wants to control everthing & LW wants to protect everything. If Chaos has its way, everything will be gone, thus nothing to either Control or Protect.

On the other side (a much rarer event). Order will gain the upper hand. Say, some LN Druids trying to Further the ultimate goal of Law by Merging the Moon & the Earth.

CE & CG will team up to prevent Order from taking over (though CE tends to stick CG in the back at some random point).

My games have Law & Chaos as the players of teh Chessboard. Everything else is playing pieces.

Adventuerers tend to be Pawns.

 

[Wayside]

LE wants to control everthing & LG wants to protect everything. If Chaos has its way, everything will be gone, thus nothing to either Control or Protect.

That's a nice, succinct way of putting it.

 

[Asmor]

I had an epiphany in the shower: The key to emphasizing law vs. chaos over good vs. evil is de-emphasizing the latter.

Right now, when you think good vs. evil, you tend to think of good people as really good and evil people as really evil.

However, most people aren't really that extreme... What if the difference between good and evil was the difference between giving a spare copper to a beggar versus not giving a spare copper to a beggar? Just little differences...

So, here's what I've come up with.

Lawful neutral believes that the rules are the rules, and they should almost always be applied, and be applied equally.

Lawful good is willing to bend the rules a bit to help people. For example, a lawful good act would be a tax collector looking the other way when one of the peasants is a bit short because of the drought.

Lawful evil generally likes the things that come from a lawful society, but not so much when they impact on its own standard of living... An example of a lawful evil act is lying a bit about how much cheese you sold so that you can pay lower taxes. Lawful evil believes that rules are made to enhance their own lives.

Chaotic neutral believes that freedom should almost always trump order, law and tradition.

Chaotic good is willing to follow some rules and traditions when it recognizes that they really are generally helpful... For example, a chaotic good character might set up a school in her village, because she believes that the children of the community will be better off in the long run learning how to read.

Chaotic evil breaks the rules because it wants to. Not so concerned with high idealism, chaotic evil just wants to get drunk and swear a lot and not get in trouble for it.

As an alternative, and simpler definition, a neutral character is lawful/chaotic because they think that law or chaos is just "right." A good character follows law or chaos because he believe law or chaos is best for society as a whole. An evil character follows law or chaos because she believes it's best for her own self-interest.

Of course, this leaves Neutral Good, Neutral Evil and True Neutral... which I'm personally fine with. If I wanted to emphasize law vs chaos, I'd require the players to pick one or the other anyways. And frankly I've never liked True Neutral.

 

[Shroomy]

In all fantasy references to "Law vs. Chaos" conflict, chaos is always representitive of evil, destruction, madness, lawlessness, barbarism, etc. while law represents that which is largely considered good ie. civilization, order, creation, reason, etc. Law and chaos are merely another way of saying Good and Evil. This doesn't work so well in D&D where law and chaos are actual things seperate from good and evil.

There is no passion to a law vs. chaos conflict in D&D. Paladins aligning with devils in order to fight elves and eladrin because they are chaotic? No way. Good and evil is a viceral, instinctive conflict. Law vs. chaos as shown in D&D is more of a cerebral exercise, a battle of philosophers perhaps but not anything most sane mortals could sink their teeth into.



Sundragon

This reminds me of how BECMI D&D handled alignment. Lawful=Good, Chaotic=Evil, everyone else was Neutral. Then they had to publish the Companion set and make creatures Lawful but evil and chaotic but good.

 

[Slapzilla]

I also think there is a perspective thing here. We, as a society, need Law in order to exist as a society. Therefore, barbarism (chaos) represents that which destroys...evil. It is easy for us to see chaos as evil.

This, naturally assumes then that order (law) represents that which sustains...good. We have a hard time envisioning a 'chaotic' society being able to rise up and send men to the moon 66 years after learning the secrets of mechanical flight.

Fantasy fiction has the natural ability to transcend conventions. If elves (or pixies or slaad) wander the world in random numbers, directions and distances, are they a society? Define 'society'. Can Chaos produce a society? Is Law a result of or an ingredient of society?

Good and Evil are easy. I think that's why Law versus Chaos hasn't been emphasized. I've always assumed that Law and Chaos were personal anyway. Assuming you play a Good character, how would you handle a situation like...

You help break up a bar fight after someone pulls a dagger and is about to swing wildly. The Gendarmerie shows as you are defending yourself and arrests you too. How do you react to finding out that the local law is to simply arrest everybody in the room?

Accept the fact that ignorance is no excuse, or rage against the unjustness of it all?

This is important as it is the personal situation that shows your ethics. A chaotic individual may think that the laws are made by evil tyrants (maybe, or maybe not). I doubt a lawful character would question the situation and their part in it, trusting that with some witnesses about the guy with the dagger, their name will be cleared at the least.

Societies are by nature, lawful. Even chaotic societies have customs and norms that have penalties for transgressing. I think emphasizing Law vs. Chaos is hard because it is personal.