[EN World Book Club] Dragondoom Discussion [September Selection]

[FraserRonald]

Well, since the discussion is flagging at the moment, I thought I'd address Dragondoom from a slightly different avenue. What would it have taken for me to like the book?

To like it, right? Not love it? Well, it would have taken surprisingly little. I can deal with the photocopied plot and characters. That's fine. Just about every David Gemmell novel is like the previous, which is like the previous, etc. Still, if it's just a fun read I'm after, Mr. Gemmell satisfies. So I guess all I really wanted was for Mr. McKiernan to write in the colloquial. Not even the colloquial, just the contemporary. I mean, the faux-Shakespearean was thrown in with the modern and the syntax jumped from formal to informal to archaic with no consistency at all. If one is trying to copy Lord Dunsany, copy, don't do half-measures. There's a reason why the prose of Lieber, Howard and Tolkien, which might in some corners be labelled purple, is still alive and beating today. It's because these writers knew and loved language. It showed. These were masters.

Now, I suppose it is possible to mix the archaic, formal and informal in such a way as to hold my attention. In fact, I think it is highly likely a good writer could do that. Unfortunately, Mr. McKiernan, in my estimation, comes nowhere close. There is obviously a market out there for his work. Great. I wish him well and the best of success. I will not, however, bother with any more of his books, even if someone swears up and down he's improved. There are way too many good writers out there with work I haven't read.

Oh, and I'm already half-way through Tigana. What a difference quality makes

 

[kingpaul]

That makes sense, especially in long things like that. Raymond Feist's Riftwar books needs one of those, too.

Especially if you include Prince of the Blood, King's Buccaneer, the Mara Trilogy and the Serpent War quartet.

 

[KnowTheToe]

I only give a book about 100-150 pages to get my attention. I am not a speed reader and if the writing style and story can't grab my attention, I put the book down. I didn't wat to because of the book club, but I failed my will throw. I did read to about 170 something. It was not horrible, but was not my thing.

 

[Sam]

Now, I suppose it is possible to mix the archaic, formal and informal in such a way as to hold my attention. In fact, I think it is highly likely a good writer could do that. Unfortunately, Mr. McKiernan, in my estimation, comes nowhere close. There is obviously a market out there for his work. Great. I wish him well and the best of success. I will not, however, bother with any more of his books, even if someone swears up and down he's improved. There are way too many good writers out there with work I haven't read.

Oh, and I'm already half-way through Tigana. What a difference quality makes

I couldn't agree more. The inconsistency in the tone and style was more jarring than the time jumping that took place in the novel.

As for Tigana, I just sat down and read the prologue, and I am more interested in that book after 5 pages than I was for the first 200 of Dragondoom. I forgot how much I like Kay's writing. I think I need to put the Fionavar Tapestry on my personal list to read (or re-read, as the case may be).

I missed the majority of "new" fantasy and science fiction that came out in the last 10-15 years (having three kids, demanding jobs and going to grad school at night will take something out of your leisure reading time). I'm finding myself with a bit more disposable time now, and have started catching up on what I had missed. I'm hoping that there's a bunch that's better than McKiernan.

FWIW, I'm really enjoying this discussion. It's nice to have a thoughtful discussion on what is right (and wrong) with a novel. Thank you to everyone who is participating!

 

[nHammer]

I'm a little over half way done with DragonDoom.

It seems to me as if McKiernan wrote it to sound like a Bard is telling the tale. While that may make a good listening, it doesn't make a good reading.

I am still interested in the relationship between Elyn and Thork, so that will keep me reading it for awhile longer.

Personally I don't think Black Kalgalath has cause half as much trouble as Elgo did. His death didn't bring any tears to my eyes.

 

[FraserRonald]

It seems to me as if McKiernan wrote it to sound like a Bard is telling the tale. While that may make a good listening, it doesn't make a good reading.

I think you may be right, but--if I understand that you believe McKiernan's prose would sound better aloud than read silently--I think I would disagree that it would make good listening. As a counterpoint, read aloud the Illiad or the Aeneid or (more close to the effect I believe McKiernan may have been aiming for) Beowulf. McKiernan may have aimed for the lyricism of these works, but he did not maintain the consistency that such an effort--IMHO--requires. Much of the founders of modern fantasy--like William Morris or Lord Dunsany--wrote in the voice of the ancient bard with astounding success. McKiernan seems to try to copy these copies without putting any effort into erasing the contemporary tone in his voice. In my opinion, this is the basis of his inconsistent style as well as the basis for my extreme distaste.

In any case, I hope those who were able to overlook this--or were not bothered in any degree by this--enjoy the book. I do agree that this may have been a fun read if I had been able to swallow McKiernan's prose.

 

[Cthulhu's Librarian]

Now, I suppose it is possible to mix the archaic, formal and informal in such a way as to hold my attention. In fact, I think it is highly likely a good writer could do that. Unfortunately, Mr. McKiernan, in my estimation, comes nowhere close. There is obviously a market out there for his work. Great. I wish him well and the best of success. I will not, however, bother with any more of his books, even if someone swears up and down he's improved. There are way too many good writers out there with work I haven't read.

I think this sums up my major problem with this book. I am one of those who has not finished the book. Originally, while I was reading in the short times I had available to me, I thought my slowness was due to the limited amounts of time I was allowing my self to read. The more I read, however, the more I realized that it wasn't me, it was the writing in the book that was slowing me down. Every time I read a sentance that contained a bastardization of the language, I was stopping and saying "thats just awful writing." When I realized I was doing this on almost every page, I finally put the book down. I wanted to like the book, but it just didn't work for me. I don't mind the recycled plot or stereotypical characters, I've read enough D&D novels and other quick fantasy books to know that sometimes that comes with the territory. Those are the books that I read between the really good books. When I was in highschool, I tried to read McKiernan's Iron Tower trilogy, and was unable to get through the first half of the first book. Reading this, I was struck by the fact that I was having many of the same thoughts as I read this one. The old, familiar fantasy elements, written badly. There certainly is a market for Mr. McKiernan's books, as I can remember selling tons of his books whenever a new one came out at the bookstore I worked in in college. When I worked for HarperPrism, I remember one of our editors pitching a book as "similar in style to Dennis McKiernan" and showing sales figures on his books. He is a bankable author, and has an audience. I guess I'm just not part of it.

 

[nHammer]

I think you may be right, but--if I understand that you believe McKiernan's prose would sound better aloud than read silently--I think I would disagree that it would make good listening.

No, not quite. I think McKiernan fell short in his attempt to make it sound like a Bard's tale.

 

[JoeBlank]

I missed the majority of "new" fantasy and science fiction that came out in the last 10-15 years (having three kids, demanding jobs and going to grad school at night will take something out of your leisure reading time). I'm finding myself with a bit more disposable time now, and have started catching up on what I had missed. I'm hoping that there's a bunch that's better than McKiernan.

Sam, you and I seem to be in much of the same situation.

• missed the majority of "new" fantasy and science fiction that came out in the last 10-15 years - Same here
• having three kids - Same here, ages 5, 3 and 1
• demanding jobs - Same here
• grad school - You got me beat there, hopefully I am finished with schooling
• more disposable time - Think I am just managing my time better; I hardly watch television anymore, and am much more satisfied with reading
• hoping that there's a bunch that's better than McKiernan - while I was not quite as dissappointed as many have expressed, I found Dragondoom only a little above average, as I envision many of the licensed D&D novels to be. A decent, fun read, but no real lasting impression.

For the record, I am convinced that jester47 simply picked a book, from an author he has enjoyed in the past, but which he had not yet read. Now the consensus seems to be that Dragondoom is one of McKiernan's lesser works. I too found the reading kind of slow, and I guess the writing style is to blame here.

Also, I was not very captivated by the Elyn/Thork relationship. I felt like we pretty much knew where that was going, and it did not hold any real surprises. I much more enjoyed the other chapters, especially after Elgo died. I expected his death to just about wrap up the flashbacks, but was pleased with the war and the reaction of the participants to the threat of Black Kalgaleth.

If I had the time to read a novel or so per week, I would certainly consider more McKiernan. But my usual speed is about 6 weeks to finish a decent-sized book. By the time the kids are in bed, and the wife and I have actually been able to talk to one another, I often find myself falling asleep after reading a few pages. There is just so much A-List material out there that I have yet to read, so I don't have the time to spend on the B-List material.

With our agreed-upon requirements for book selections, I can see myself getting exposed to many authors, having a sample of their works, and often adding them to my A-List, all thanks to the EN World Book Club. In fact, I have already done this thanks to this forum, as I otherwise might never have heard of George R. R. Martin or Guy Gavriel Kay. I am now caught up on Martin's A Song of Ice and Fire, but Tigana is only my second Kay novel.

 

[FraserRonald]

No, not quite. I think McKiernan fell short in his attempt to make it sound like a Bard's tale.

My apologies for misrepresenting your statement. It seems we are in much closer agreement than I had assumed!

Take care.