EN World GameStore Closing
NathanHill
First Post
I'm a very small press publisher, though I do have several products in the pipeline.
The merger is still something I'm watching with caution. I don't like the raise in prices, but I'm certainly willing to see what happens. I was exclusive with RPGNow, although I was considering diversifying before. Now, seeing e23's 20% royalty rate, I've got a little more gumption to go non-exclusive. And I do plan to point customers directly to e23's site. I will keep my products on OBS, but I have to be serious... RPGNow's marketing tools never really did anything for me.
All in all, I'm not looking for much. I think the biggest problem I see from the merger is the continuation of bad "rpg industry" mentality. Someone gets a little success, so they turn around and try to be the next big thing. They want to take it to the next level, reach a greater audience, and make even more money. And more often than not, things fall apart.
In reality, success happens on a smaller scale in the hobby. The companies that are smart are the ones who plod slowly along with carefully designed games and smart decisions. (No movie deals, no big licenses.) Atlas Games is one such company that fits that criteria, and so I think it is something sad that OBS' "big plans" have turned them off.
I think the next big advertising model has to be tied to actual play - not banner and print ads.
But, of course, I'm different, and I wish OBS the best of luck in this change.
The merger is still something I'm watching with caution. I don't like the raise in prices, but I'm certainly willing to see what happens. I was exclusive with RPGNow, although I was considering diversifying before. Now, seeing e23's 20% royalty rate, I've got a little more gumption to go non-exclusive. And I do plan to point customers directly to e23's site. I will keep my products on OBS, but I have to be serious... RPGNow's marketing tools never really did anything for me.
- Sales - sales are something I don't do much. I already price my stuff low enough that a sale seems kind of a waste.
- Mailings - who wants to get spammed from publishers trying to get you to buy their latest product? Never used it.
- MOTDs, banners, etc. - Fine, I guess, but the problem is that these things are disconnected from actually playing the product.
- Coupons - I like coupons, although I'm still wary to use them except in a few situations (product upgrades, new versions, etc.)
- Reviews - by far, the best feature that RPGNow had going for it... a decent little review system to rate products and give a flavor. Still, I'd rather there was a way to be able to demo the games.
All in all, I'm not looking for much. I think the biggest problem I see from the merger is the continuation of bad "rpg industry" mentality. Someone gets a little success, so they turn around and try to be the next big thing. They want to take it to the next level, reach a greater audience, and make even more money. And more often than not, things fall apart.
In reality, success happens on a smaller scale in the hobby. The companies that are smart are the ones who plod slowly along with carefully designed games and smart decisions. (No movie deals, no big licenses.) Atlas Games is one such company that fits that criteria, and so I think it is something sad that OBS' "big plans" have turned them off.
I think the next big advertising model has to be tied to actual play - not banner and print ads.
But, of course, I'm different, and I wish OBS the best of luck in this change.
Last edited:
Orcus
First Post
Hi everyone.
Just thought I would chuck in my two cents. I maybe have a slightly different approach to viewing this issue.
First off, I am right there with Monte on this. I see this as amazing.
I aslo want to say that Necro has no intention of raising any prices on PDFs. Our price decisions are our price decisions. We try to decide what is fair and that is that.
But back to my main point
As you may remember, Necro has the fine distinction of releasing the very first OGL/d20 product of all time--the Wizard's Amulet. That product was a PDF. That's right, the very first product in all of d20 history was a PDF. As a result, I have a fond spot in my heart for PDFs. We have always had great PDF support for our products. But, until recently, because Bill and I do not run Necro full time, we have not really viewed pdf distribution as a good primary distribution method for us. I always wanted to do more in the way of primary PDFs, but it just wasnt something that worked for us. I know that Necro is differnt from a lot of publishers for that reason. So my concerns and issues are different from a company that is part of the merge that has for some time relied on PDFs as a primary means of distribution. I understand and acknowledge that. I know that there are lots of different publishers with lots of different takes here. Heck, you can see it just by reading the threads. So I am not presuming to speak for anyone but me.
However, I see the creation of OBS as the beginning of the true growth of PDFs as a more viable distribution method. Sure, you could say "hey Clark it has been here all along". I know it has. And I have watched. But I think, from my standpoint, OBS has made a significant change. I truly see the merger as focusing on future growth. The type I hoped would one day happen for PDFs. Now you have one company with all the staff working on a common goal of site improvement, delivery improvement, etc. Previously I viewed PDF distribution as a way to reach some fans who couldnt get print product. Now I am excited to contemplate PDF as a means of primary delivery. I have to say that I didnt see that as a workable model for us before. So much so, that I actually have a massive product in the works that will be PDF released first and exclusively and will only be published in print on the very back end (after several installments of PDFs). I wouldnt have been comfortable with that prior to the merger.
So what does this do for current publishers? It grow the PDF market, which is a boon for all publishers. It brings PDF more into the main of commercial viability for primary delivery. Frankly, it has convinced publishers like me to dip deeper into PDFs as a delivery medium. That can only be a good thing, in my view.
Call me crazy, but I also see this merger as being one step closer to fulfilling the vision of open gaming.
What? What did I just say? Yeah, it might sound crazy but I mean in. Open Gaming is awesome because anyone who can make a pdf can get involved. It is the desk top revolution to gaming. I love it. (I know I am preaching to the choir here ). The prior problem with Open Gaming truly fulfilling its vision is that there has always been a split between pdf publishers to some degree and print publishers. In my view, the rise of the commercial viability of PDF delivery brings those publishers together.
For instance, I understand there will be bundling features. For isntance, lets say a pdf publisher made a product that used some open game content from our Tome of Horrors. You can advertise and bundle together your product to mine. Since Tome is one of the best selling d20 books of all time, I imagine other publishers can see the value of that.
Sorry if this has been a long post and maybe doesnt make a ton of sense. But it is late and I am really tired.
To sum up:
As a publisher, I love this merger.
As a fan of open gaming, I love the possibilities a stronger pdf delivery mechanism brings to my view of realizing the dream of people and companies of all types coming together to make game products.
As a fan of pdfs, I am thrilled to see OBS finally be FOR ME (and this is no disrespect to others who found other ways) what I wanted in a pdf delivery mechanism.
PDFs for me are not just an added convenience, they are now--with OBS--a viable primary delivery medium. And I am geeked about that. I think this does nothing but provide huge possibilities for pdf publishing which I strongly believe is the wave of the future for gaming.
As a side note, I happen to know the people involved and I know they are great guys and love gaming as much as I do.
Clark
Just thought I would chuck in my two cents. I maybe have a slightly different approach to viewing this issue.
First off, I am right there with Monte on this. I see this as amazing.
I aslo want to say that Necro has no intention of raising any prices on PDFs. Our price decisions are our price decisions. We try to decide what is fair and that is that.
But back to my main point
As you may remember, Necro has the fine distinction of releasing the very first OGL/d20 product of all time--the Wizard's Amulet. That product was a PDF. That's right, the very first product in all of d20 history was a PDF. As a result, I have a fond spot in my heart for PDFs. We have always had great PDF support for our products. But, until recently, because Bill and I do not run Necro full time, we have not really viewed pdf distribution as a good primary distribution method for us. I always wanted to do more in the way of primary PDFs, but it just wasnt something that worked for us. I know that Necro is differnt from a lot of publishers for that reason. So my concerns and issues are different from a company that is part of the merge that has for some time relied on PDFs as a primary means of distribution. I understand and acknowledge that. I know that there are lots of different publishers with lots of different takes here. Heck, you can see it just by reading the threads. So I am not presuming to speak for anyone but me.
However, I see the creation of OBS as the beginning of the true growth of PDFs as a more viable distribution method. Sure, you could say "hey Clark it has been here all along". I know it has. And I have watched. But I think, from my standpoint, OBS has made a significant change. I truly see the merger as focusing on future growth. The type I hoped would one day happen for PDFs. Now you have one company with all the staff working on a common goal of site improvement, delivery improvement, etc. Previously I viewed PDF distribution as a way to reach some fans who couldnt get print product. Now I am excited to contemplate PDF as a means of primary delivery. I have to say that I didnt see that as a workable model for us before. So much so, that I actually have a massive product in the works that will be PDF released first and exclusively and will only be published in print on the very back end (after several installments of PDFs). I wouldnt have been comfortable with that prior to the merger.
So what does this do for current publishers? It grow the PDF market, which is a boon for all publishers. It brings PDF more into the main of commercial viability for primary delivery. Frankly, it has convinced publishers like me to dip deeper into PDFs as a delivery medium. That can only be a good thing, in my view.
Call me crazy, but I also see this merger as being one step closer to fulfilling the vision of open gaming.
What? What did I just say? Yeah, it might sound crazy but I mean in. Open Gaming is awesome because anyone who can make a pdf can get involved. It is the desk top revolution to gaming. I love it. (I know I am preaching to the choir here
). The prior problem with Open Gaming truly fulfilling its vision is that there has always been a split between pdf publishers to some degree and print publishers. In my view, the rise of the commercial viability of PDF delivery brings those publishers together. For instance, I understand there will be bundling features. For isntance, lets say a pdf publisher made a product that used some open game content from our Tome of Horrors. You can advertise and bundle together your product to mine. Since Tome is one of the best selling d20 books of all time, I imagine other publishers can see the value of that.
Sorry if this has been a long post and maybe doesnt make a ton of sense. But it is late and I am really tired.
To sum up:
As a publisher, I love this merger.
As a fan of open gaming, I love the possibilities a stronger pdf delivery mechanism brings to my view of realizing the dream of people and companies of all types coming together to make game products.
As a fan of pdfs, I am thrilled to see OBS finally be FOR ME (and this is no disrespect to others who found other ways) what I wanted in a pdf delivery mechanism.
PDFs for me are not just an added convenience, they are now--with OBS--a viable primary delivery medium. And I am geeked about that. I think this does nothing but provide huge possibilities for pdf publishing which I strongly believe is the wave of the future for gaming.
As a side note, I happen to know the people involved and I know they are great guys and love gaming as much as I do.
Clark
Orcus
First Post
By the way, my post is not intended in any way to disparage the views of those who say there will be a financial pinch for them. Different companies have different views and I respect those concerns. Obviously, we all have bottom lines. I, though, see the future growth of pdfs as the boon to offset that. Only time will tell. Maybe I am just a big optimist
Clark
Clark
NathanHill
First Post
Urizen said:
Roudi said:
Actually, maybe I didn't make myself clear.
I'm using demo as a verb there. I already have a downloadable preview or stripped down version of the product. I mean... that I would like some sort of sweet option where a potential customer checks out the game, then clicks on a button that says "Play!" Then, I am shot an email that says - "Hey, someone wants a five minute demo of your game." And I run it for them, over the internet. Or a gamer in their area gets their info, and they can get together and play a session.
I've never bought a game because of a banner. And I am seriously tired of buying games because of their cover text or what they "seem" like. I want to play it first, then figure out if it really is something fun. This is the secret of many of the "indie" games out there and why they do so well at Gencon. And I think it is the point of the roleplaying hobby too.
Does that make sense?
Christoph the Magus
Explorer
Orcus said:
I apologize if I am misremembering, but I seem to recall that Necro put their products on Drive Thru begrudgingly, at high prices, and made comments to the effect of "I'd prefer people to buy the hardback, I'm a print publisher. The PDF is only there for people that can't get the hardback."
Maybe I'm wrong, or maybe you've changed your mind, but I'm surprised to hear that Necro cares one whit about the PDF market.
Bardsandsages
First Post
NathanHill said:
Sales: WalMart has the lowest prices of most department stores, yet they still have sales. Why? Because sales get people in the door. It is the same thing with an e-store. Why do you think Amazon has sales? It motivates people to buy now instead of waiting. Also, a sale on product Y gets people looking at your other products, increasing sale of backlist items. Sales are one of the most basic marketing tools.
Mailings: What SPAM? RPGnow is an OPT-IN list! That was always the beauty of it, these are customers who WANT to know about your new products! Customers actually select if they want to get e-mails from vendors.
MOTD/BANNERS: Such are never about direct sales. Again, this is a marketing method to raise awareness. On average, a person needs to see or hear something 7 times before they will remember it. Banners and MOTD remind people of your product. While it may not lead to a sale today, three months from now when someone says "You know, I want to run a completely new campaign, something more exotic. Hey, I remember something about a jungle setting called Neiyar..." That is where banner advertising is important.
As far as demos of your game, that isn't really something an online store can do for you. What I've done with Neiyar in the pass is offer free copies of the book to GMs who will run demos at various conventions. The core book includes a full module that assumes the players are non-natives shipwreched on the island, so it's ideal for people who aren't familiar with the setting.
Ralts Bloodthorne
First Post
I'll be honest...
As long as they don't cut me hard enough that I can't afford another bottle of Wild Turkey, I really won't care.
It sounded bad at first, and now that there's been some explanation, I'm not worried.
--EDIT--
I'm in a nasty mood, no need to take it out on someone.
WHERE'S MY DAMN BOOZE???
As long as they don't cut me hard enough that I can't afford another bottle of Wild Turkey, I really won't care.
It sounded bad at first, and now that there's been some explanation, I'm not worried.
--EDIT--
I'm in a nasty mood, no need to take it out on someone.
WHERE'S MY DAMN BOOZE???
Last edited:
Similar Threads
