Entangle needs nerfing...

[JamesDJarvis]

nor does it give them tendrils. nor make them grow. nor a bunch of other things that people tend to let the plants do.

Yet it still functions well enough to provide the effect that the spell provides. you dont' have to go anywhere outside of the spells description and still find it to be a bit powerful.
One campiagn I PC'd in took place outdoors a lot of the time and this spell came up constantly. We were constantly using entagle and then peppering the baddies with missles while they were slowed down. Two or three (or longer )rounds in the area of an entangle spell while being peppered with missles is a long time.

 

[jgsugden]

DMs need to think when this spell is used:

What plant life is present where the spell is being cast? What characteristics does it have?

What effect will a fireball, burning hands, alchemist's fire, etc ... have on the plants that are holding onto the victims?

If there is a single plant (ie; a single tree, bush, etc ....) wrapping around the victim, how sturdy is that plant? Could it be ripped out by the roots? Could it be hacked with an axe?

The final line of the spell says it all: the spell may be altered by the nature of the plants. Drop the DC if there is only tall grass present. Drop it a lot if the grass isn't so tall.

This spell is incredibly simplified in CRPGs. In a Pen and Paper game, you *must* use your own judgment to make it work well.

*****************

With regards to the argument that this spell is bad because it is overpowered when it can be used to full effect, most spells have that problem ... they are more or less useful in certain situations. After all, most 7 CR monsters don't fear a burning hands spell ... unless they have fire vulnerability. This spell just happens to have a wider swing. A druid that memorizes it may find that he wasted a spell slot if he never fights in a location where there are plants or wildlife ... or he may single handedly best the foe with one spell and a few missile weapon shots.

 

[Infiniti2000]

Wow, it's like your reading my mind...completely incorrectly. Honestly how you translate 'dulled somewhat' into anger is amusing.

I didn't translate anything. I inferred from the tone of your post. Is it wrong? Do you in fact not dislike splatbooks that allow druids "to do anything, anywhere"? If this is inference is wrong, please clarify what you meant by that phrase and why you included it.

Nope. The most potent ability of Entangle is to incorrectly convince people they're helpless. They have a plethora of options but a large number of players just shut down and quit when it happens.

Poor player choices do not equal a poorly designed spell.

That seems more like a problem with your players then. Mine (and me when I play) certainly don't shut down. And I don't think many others do either. What makes you speculate that "a large number of players just shut down and quit"? If anyone reading this is one of those players, please speak up.

 

[Infiniti2000]

Your example is seriously flawed. You can heal outside of combat with effectively no downside in this example. (It takes you 24 seconds instead of 6.)

How's that flawed given the context of the example? Where was the 'this example should be limited to combat scenarios only' clause that I missed?

 

[azmodean]

Actually yes, the example should be limited to combat situations only, otherwise the restriction (takes time to work) stops being a problem. If you have the same two rods, but they cast an attack spell instead of a heal, I don't really think you'd have that many people going for the 75% failure rate over the 1/day use.

 

[Coredump]

How's that flawed given the context of the example? Where was the 'this example should be limited to combat scenarios only' clause that I missed?

Because the examples are being used to compare with *entangle*, and how broken it is/isn't in *combat*.

Try this
combat wand only good 3/day
combat want only good between noon and 1pm

Sure, if you get attacked a lot right at noon, the second one would be great....
If you adventure outdoors, with lots of vegetation, entangle is great. (Of course, in almost any outdoor adventure, the casters have a huge advantage...)



In a campaign I was in, a wizard/rogue was invisible following a marching army. Waited for them to get to a long straight stretch, snuck to the front of the line, and cast lightning bolt. Did like 300d6 of damage, killing almost 50 of the monsters.
Given the right circumstances.... that is a very powerful spell.

 

[Thanee]

This spell is incredibly simplified in CRPGs.

Worked well enough in ToEE.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Ogrork the Mighty]

Some really useful posts here. Thanks all. I totally missed that part about getting a move action after breaking free; we had people who would break free as a full round only to fail the save the following round and consequently get nowhere.

I like the ideas about limiting the spell by the undergrowth present. Good idea, that's what I'll be doing.

 

[Coredump]

Maybe if you could use it indoors or in a city I might make it a second level spell.



Y'know... like Web....

 

[ThirdWizard]

It's overpowered in Sigil with an abundance of razorvine in many places. Oh my, yes.

My only real problem with this spell is that it uses a rather high ability score check, and ability score checks don't scale much with level (and not at all for some characters). But, I have general problems with this mechanic in spells/abilities, so maybe its just me.