Enter The Brainstorm: Hellenic Western

[DreadPirateMurphy]

I'm better at playing devil's advocate, so let me say up front I think the idea is neat. Here are some things that might not mesh so well...

1) The Wild West took place in the Victorian era. You will find some of the attitudes of the classical period to be VERY different. You'll need to either pick one set of beliefs, or come up with some kind of sensible fusion.

2) The Wild West had a borderlands feel. That's fine, as ancient Greece was very much the border states for the Persian empire in the classical period. However, in the 19th century West, you had civilization vs. the barbarians (I'm talking archetypes, here, so please do not take offense). The Greeks were very much the independent city states holding out against the empire. You may want to tweak the setting a bit. The border areas of the Roman Empire actually equate better to the Wild West in this regard.

3) The Greeks have always been a nautically-focused people -- huge peninsula with lots of bays and inlets, and the Aegean is filled with islands. The Wild West is very much a dry, dusty, plains and mountains type of setting. The black hats in Greece are more likely to sail over the horizon than ride off into the sunset.

4) There were a lot of rough men in the Wild West, with spotty education. Greek citizens in the classical period were likely better educated than the equivalent 19th-century rancher. The exception would be folks from the eastern cities moving out for a fresh start. Greece was considered a center of culture, at least from the time of Alexander, while the Old West was considered the frontier.

Just some thoughts.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

For a fantasy RR, you could substitute several things as long as you remember that RRs had limited pathways that they could travel over. This means that land on those paths was extremely valuable, and had to be controlled, and that the trains themselves, once operable, were "predictable" and vulnerable to attack.

One thing you could use is sledges drawn by golems, undead, or some kind of large-ish fantasy critter.

However, in the 19th century West, you had civilization vs. the barbarians (I'm talking archetypes, here, so please do not take offense).

Given the attitudes of the Athenians and the Spartans towards each other as well as their respective military power and societal structures, I think they'd make a reasonable substitute for Civ vs Barbs.

 

[Snapdragyn]

Five words: The Ancient Band of Thebes.

The thought of transferring that into a 'gyro western' warms my heart.

 

[tadk]

I love this
I tend to end up doing or coming up with odd ideas only I can love
this totally rocks.

 

[Agent Oracle]

Hehehe, Just a note, my name is Agent Oracle Not Orange. (sigh) nobody gets that right, but I probably diserve it.

I love the Satyr / Centaur / Minotaur Triad. It would complete the standard "Four Core races" (Commonly human, elf, dwarf, and... Other) while keeping the flavor of the region.

However, the range wars and railroads were economic struggles (that sometimes involved gunfire)- you'll need a substitute for them.

3) Another major force in shaping the American West were mineral and lumber resources...magic and such could shift the drive for exotic minerals to the sea and below...but lumber?

Ladies and gentlemen, i present to you: the reason for the railroads in Greece:

That brass ball happens to be Heron's steam engine. It was invented around the time of Alexander the great though,but if your alternative history follows, it could be used. Heron himself saw great uses for it, but his patron (the emperor) doubted it's effectiveness, citing that slaves could do everything it did. But imagine, given a few years to develop it, and we have steam-powered transport.

That brings us to another point, perhaps Greece underwent a civil war over... get ready... Slavery. it would certianly cause a underlying anger (which was part of what fostered so much wild west crime).

Now, the lumber industry: I Imagine that the germanics to the north had lots of timber.,,

 

[joshhg]

For a substitute for Railroads, without changing or introducing anything, you can use the straits and seas in the region. Because they were often narrow, or had small necks, and led to other trade cities or profitable regions; citys and towns can grow up around them, and threaten to sink any ships that went though without paying a toll. They try to run it, they would send out a man on horseback to run ahead and alert ships waiting on the other side, or send ships out from the port itself. All of a sudden the trade ship has a fight on it's hands, which will cost them more in repairs and lost cargo then the original toll; if they get out alive at all.
However, should they stop in port and pay the toll, the ship gain harbor, potential trade, and a rest before they tackle the dangerous strait. If they try to go around, they lose many days to travel, risk major storms, or getting lost. Thus this results in profitable trade on both sides.
But, many people will dislike these tolls, or you'll get bandits raiding out of caves, or overcharging, or other things that will make trade cities want to rid themselves of these nuisances. That's where the heroes come in.

I really like this idea, and I wouldn't mind seeing how you put it all together.
Have a nice day,
Josh

 

[Simulated Sanity]

DreadPirateMurphy: Thanks. But it seems you have missed some key concepts in my original post. First, the historical period which I lift is the mid to late fifth century (450s to 400s BC). This is the zenith of classical Greece, called the Age of Pericles. The Greco-Persians Wars are over. The Peloponnesian War between the Delian League and Peloponnesian League is in the now.

This period lets me focus the setting on (mostly Ionic) settlements of the north-eastern Greek frontier (Today: Ukraine), which absolutely had the civilization versus barbarian vibe - they fought and traded with the indigenous Scythians, Thracians, etc. The untamed landscape (apart from the pirate-infested inland sea) was similar and just as unforgiving. No desert though.

Dannyalcatraz: I'll remember that when giving railroads (or their equivalent) serious thought.

Snapdragyn: Do you mean the homosexual soldier pairings? Yeah, great flavor.

Tadk: Thanks!

Agent Oracle: Haha. Sorry about the name, mate. You like the idea of four races? Cool. It's just an excuse to have a hell of a lot of satyrs – a favorite creature of mine. As for the Heron Aeolipile, remember with regard to technology the idea is to add the Western-era to a Greek foundation – a mishmash, not an alternate history.

So the Peloponnesian War is fought over slavery? It might work, with a little history fiddlin'.

Josh: I like it. Definitely suits the northern Black Sea area. Ah, but how would one handle boats/ships? Not in a logical alt-history way, but a mishmash of the two eras... steam-triremes? Hmmm.

I wouldn't mind seeing how you put it all together.

You and me both.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

I know the Greeks had that steam engine, but they didn't have a lot of the other things that go along with it- like the metalworking skills to make one big enough to power a train, or make the rails that it would run on...or the explosives skill to make the tunnels through the mountains...or the lumber to make chasm-spanning trestles.

OTOH, you could probably make rails out of hard stone that would last some time. It worked for the Romans and the Via Appia.

 

[Terwox]

This actually sounds pretty cool. I like the bit of casting the greek pantheon as mere mortals...

Anyway, curious to see where you go with it.

 

[Baron Opal]

Celestial Matters might be a good book to read, as well. Fiction, Alexander and Aristotle join forces and the Delian league becomes a major empire in the world. One of the main characters is a Cherokee trained at Sparta and they strive against the evil Middle Kingdom (China) and their mysterious magic (Chi effects).

It develops a bit the logical consquences of Aristolean physics, particularly with firearms.