D&D General ENWorld is better that the pundits…change my mind

[Mind of tempest]

That sounds like something an AI would say!

although I have long been accused of being not human, I am sadly still made of flesh.

 

[Seramus]

Do you think D&D can accommodate the both of you? If not, which one of you should be catered to and which one should be ignored??

I should definitely be ignored!

 

[EzekielRaiden]

I don’t like comparing D&D characters to supers, but yeah this is a good example of the differences. I think it’s the must be x-men that chafes a bit in 4E snd PF2.

Why?

Genuinely. Why? Why is that bad?

Why is it good that every hero actually be 100% solo material? Why is it good to be five completely individual people who just coincidentally happen to adventure in the same place at the same time?

 

[payn]

Why?

Genuinely. Why? Why is that bad?

Why is it good that every hero actually be 100% solo material? Why is it good to be five completely individual people who just coincidentally happen to adventure in the same place at the same time?

I’ve covered that. A lot of players are still learning the game and have not mastered it. Needing a volleyball team to play the game is difficult for west matches and organized play.

Alternatively, the GM can dial up the challenge to require more teamwork (PF2 the opposite to require less) for folks more experienced with D&D and fantasy RPG likes.

5E defaulted on the casual end.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

5E defaulted on the casual end.

It emphatically did not. Like...in numerous ways, it is not a casual game.

I have been teaching someone to play it recently. It is not a casual game. Not by a long shot. He's struggling, and only helped by the fact that I already taught him how to play Dungeon World, so he has context for the conceptual foundation.

No edition that bent over backwards to please "old school" fans (for a particular, idiosyncratic definition of "old school") is going to be a casual game. Ever.

 

[payn]

It emphatically did not. Like...in numerous ways, it is not a casual game.

I have been teaching someone to play it recently. It is not a casual game. Not by a long shot. He's struggling, and only helped by the fact that I already taught him how to play Dungeon World, so he has context for the conceptual foundation.

No edition that bent over backwards to please "old school" fans (for a particular, idiosyncratic definition of "old school") is going to be a casual game. Ever.

Now you are getting it. Imagine your buddy if they had to learn their PC and whatever your PC does so they could play the game.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

Now you are getting it. Imagine your buddy if they had to learn their PC and whatever your PC does so they could play the game.

They don't though. Nobody ever needs to know that much.

At most, you need to learn like, one or two useful things.

Players do this all the time in video games, board games, and sports, all of which get far, far more players than D&D has ever had. Why is it an impossible onerous burden for D&D and a walk in the park for so many other games?

Doubly so when, as noted, D&D 5e is not a casual game and never will be.

 

[payn]

They don't though. Nobody ever needs to know that much.

At most, you need to learn like, one or two useful things.

Players do this all the time in video games, board games, and sports, all of which get far, far more players than D&D has ever had. Why is it an impossible onerous burden for D&D and a walk in the park for so many other games?

I think you are pretty much ignoring all the team work capabilities of 5E D&D because they are not mechanically suited to your preferences.

Doubly so when, as noted, D&D 5e is not a casual game and never will be.

Its casual for D&D and in comparison to other crunchy RPGs. Its a common complaint.

 

[Zardnaar]

They don't though. Nobody ever needs to know that much.

At most, you need to learn like, one or two useful things.

Players do this all the time in video games, board games, and sports, all of which get far, far more players than D&D has ever had. Why is it an impossible onerous burden for D&D and a walk in the park for so many other games?

Doubly so when, as noted, D&D 5e is not a casual game and never will be.

Its relative. Its more casual than 3E and 4E.

You pick race and class for the most part initially. Feats optional. 12 classes multiplied by 4+ options depending on what DM wants. Backgrounds I suppose but theyre fairly simple.

4E. Race. Class. Feat, multiple powers. That's level 1. Multiply all that together. 3E skips the power part.

B/X stripped down you have 7 choices thats it.

So for newbie 4E most complicated then 3E, then 5.5, then 5E, 2E depends, 1E, BECMI and OD&D and B/X at the bottom end.

Good luck understanding 1E and OD&D though.