Ace said:
10 wizards with that spell could kill a county in a matter of days -
Its basically a D&D nuke and since it can't be used why introduce it?
Two reasons: One, it's for bad guys as well as good guys. Second, and this is more important, they're not as powerful as they at first appear. Development on them is prohibitively expensive (one of the many problems with Epic Spellcasting we've been discussing, of course), use of them is expensive (10,000 xp per casting and a DC of 319) and its not very powerful against characters, only NPCs and mooks. Never mind that they take 10 rounds to cast and are easily dispellable.
No, these are actually good visual examples of epic spellcasting....but they're not a wise choice except for a battlemage at the height of war or a supreme spellcaster amongst far weaker rivals. In an epic game, its equally likely that a high powered diviner would figure out the culprit and send a party of epic heroes to stop it, right quick, for example. It might work ONCE, but the second time, a host of solars, heroes and other assorted forces of good would be waiting for him, to make sure he learned his lesson.
Even at epic levels, spellcasters need protecting. Remember
WizarDru's First Rule: "Everybody Rolls a '1', Eventually."
Now, as to not going Epic....Good for you. If you don't think you're world would support it, DON'T DO IT. Part of the point of this thread is to discuss Epic's merits and approaches...but also to illustrate what a successful Epic game can and cannot be. If an epic game would stretch all sense of credibility for your game, then recognizing that fact is an important step.
the Jester said:
Hmm, one of my biggest looming issues with epic play is the cost of epic magic items, spells, etc. I don't think I need or want that much cash around in my campaign- but on the other hand, making the pcs invest and wait for returns in order to use their resources is an appealing way to get the pcs to slow the hell down- a very neat trick at epic levels, I tell you!
It does seem that there should be an increase in cost at epic levels- but I think I would be happy with double or triple rather than 10x. Has anyone experimented with changing the pricing on this at all?
The problem, unfortunately is a double-edged sword. On the one hand, the prices listed in the ELH are consistent with the rest of the system and are balanced. On the other hand....well, IMHO for Epic Levels, Balance SUCKS. Epic Spellcasting is so balanced that no one finds it appealing, and the requirements to fashion epic weapons, items and armor are so high that it will effectively never happen. Lowering the cost, however, is equally problematic.
My suggestion, such as it is, is to instead make those costs more meaningful. If you choose to follow those cost requirements, make them translate from actual gold into rarity equivalencies. For example, Dire Winter, listed above, requires 2,871,000 gp to develop. Rather than have it cost that in gold, have it cost that in equivalent rare items, such as the need for the PCs to acquire the unhatched eggs of a Frost Wyrm queenling, only moments after she lays them, and then combined with a the frozen tears of a frost giant princess and transferred into a gemstone of great value that is then frozen and shattered to unleash it's precious powers to the researcher?
The point being is that my approach has been to essentially bypass the cost restrictions and instead use more interesting ways to lead the players to the creation of these items. I usually require a specific epic 'forging' place, rare materials and a personal investment of power (and xp) to make it happen. Further, some beings may gift them at appropriate times (such as a divine patron, ancient watcher or Epic NPC friend).
