Epic Magic Big Thread

[Sepulchrave II]

Matt

Here's my proposed Matt. He's somewhat optimized for his niche, but uses core feats only. The Spell Focus and Greater Spell Focus feats are included, but the school is not specified. I assume a Human Wizard (Generalist), 25-point buy: Str 8 Dex 12 Con 14 Int 15 Wis 13 Cha 10; Int increases at 4, 8, 12, 16, 20. I also assume that Matt has wisely invested in a +5 tome, and has an inherent bonus to his Intelligence. I've tried to keep his magic items as vanilla as possible. Matt has no familiar.

I figured that Matt would see a lot of combat - flinging those fireballs, and all - so I gave him Combat Casting. Either that, or Improved Initiative.

He's at lvl 20 right now; I'll add versions at 3-level intervals to this post as time permits. Subsequent wealth will assume UK's lvl^3*100 formula; at present, he's by the book.

Matt the Metamagic Specialist (lvl 20)
Human Wizard (Generalist) 20; medium humanoid; HD 20d4+100; hp 152; Init +4; Spd 40 ft.; AC 29 (touch 21, flat-footed 25); Base Atk +10; Grp +9; Atk +10 (1d4-1/19-20, MW dagger); SA spells; SQ spells; SV Fort +17 Ref +16 Will +19; Str 8 Dex 18 Con 20 Int 31 Wis 13 Cha 10.

Skills: Concentration +29, Knowledge (arcana) +34, Spellcraft +36, others that don't concern us.

Feats: Scribe scroll (B, 1st), Combat Casting (B, human, 1st), Spell Focus (1st), Heighten Spell (3rd), Enlarge Spell (B, 5th), Greater Spell Focus (6th), Empower Spell (9th), Extend Spell (B, 10th), Maximize Spell (12th), Quicken Spell (15th), Widen Spell (B, 15th), Still Spell (18th), Silent Spell (B, 20th).

Spell Save DC: 20 + Spell Level (+2 GSF)

Wealth (lvl 20) 760,000 gp:

[Tome of clear thought +5 (137,500)]
Headband of intellect +6 (36,000)
Bracers of armor +8 (64,000)
Amulet of health +6 (36,000)
Gloves of dexterity +6 (36,000)
Cloak of resistance +5 (25,000)
Boots of Striding and Springing (5500)
Boccob's blessed book (12,500)
Heward's handy haversack (2000)
Ring of protection +5 (50,000)
Ring of wizardry IV (100,000)
Goggles of night (12,000)
Greater rod of maximization (121,500)
Dusty rose ioun stone (5000)
Pale green ioun stone (30,000)
Orange ioun stone (30,000)

Which leaves Matt 58,000 gp, to spend on scrolls, potions etc.


**

Matt the Metamagic Specialist (lvl 21)
Human Wizard (Generalist) 21; medium humanoid; HD 21d4+105; hp 159; Init +4; Spd 40 ft.; AC 29 (touch 21, flat-footed 25); Base Atk +11; Grp +10; Atk +11 (1d4-1/19-20, MW dagger); SA spells; SQ spells; SV Fort +17 Ref +16 Will +19; Str 8 Dex 18 Con 20 Int 31 Wis 13 Cha 10.

Skills: Concentration +30, Knowledge (arcana) +35, Spellcraft +39, others that don't concern us.

Feats: Scribe scroll (B, 1st), Combat Casting (B, human, 1st), Spell Focus (1st), Heighten Spell (3rd), Enlarge Spell (B, 5th), Greater Spell Focus (6th), Empower Spell (9th), Extend Spell (B, 10th), Maximize Spell (12th), Quicken Spell (15th), Widen Spell (B, 15th), Still Spell (18th), Silent Spell (B, 20th).

Epic Feats: Automatic Metamagic Capacity (21st)

Spell Save DC: 20 + Spell Level (+2 GSF)

Spells per Day: 4/7/7/6/10/6/6/5/5/5

Wealth (lvl 21) 926,100 gp:

[Tome of clear thought +5 (137,500)]
Headband of intellect +6 (36,000)
Bracers of armor +8 (64,000)
Amulet of health +6 (36,000)
Gloves of dexterity +6 (36,000)
Cloak of resistance +5 (25,000)
Boots of Striding and Springing (5500)
Boccob's blessed book (12,500)
Heward's handy haversack (2000)
Ring of protection +5 (50,000)
Ring of wizardry IV (100,000)
Goggles of night (12,000)
Greater rod of maximization (121,500)
Dusty rose ioun stone (5000)
Pale green ioun stone (30,000)
Orange ioun stone (30,000)


He's got 224,100 gp left. He's saving up.


**

Matt (lvl 24)
Human Wizard (Generalist) 24; medium humanoid; HD 24d4+120; hp 182; Init +4; Spd 40 ft.; AC 29 (touch 21, flat-footed 25); Base Atk +12; Grp +11; Atk +12 (1d4-1/19-20, MW dagger); SA spells; SQ spells; SV Fort +19 Ref +18 Will +21; Str 8 Dex 18 Con 20 Int 32 Wis 13 Cha 10.

Skills: Concentration +33, Knowledge (arcana) +38, Spellcraft +42, others that don't concern us.

Feats: Scribe scroll (B, 1st), Combat Casting (B, human, 1st), Spell Focus (1st), Heighten Spell (3rd), Enlarge Spell (B, 5th), Greater Spell Focus (6th), Empower Spell (9th), Extend Spell (B, 10th), Maximize Spell (12th), Quicken Spell (15th), Widen Spell (B, 15th), Still Spell (18th), Silent Spell (B, 20th).

Epic Feats: AMC (21st), AMC (23rd), AMC (24th)

Spell Save DC: 21 + Spell Level (+2 GSF)

Spells per Day: 4/7/7/7/10/6/6/6/5/5

Wealth (lvl 24) 1,382,400 gp:

[Tome of clear thought +5 (137,500)]
Headband of intellect +6 (36,000)
Bracers of armor +8 (64,000)
Amulet of health +6 (36,000)
Gloves of dexterity +6 (36,000)
Cloak of resistance +5 (25,000)
Boots of Striding and Springing (5500)
Boccob's blessed book (12,500)
Heward's handy haversack (2000)
Ring of protection +5 (50,000)
Ring of wizardry IV (100,000)
Goggles of night (12,000)
Greater rod of quickening (170,000)
Dusty rose ioun stone (5000)
Pale green ioun stone (30,000)
Orange ioun stone (30,000)


Matt's got a truckload of cash: 631,900 gp. He's traded in his maximizing rod for a quickening rod. He's unsure what else to buy, though - he can't find any single item worth more than 345,500.

He goes shopping. Maybe...

ring of epic wizardry V: may as well hold off until he can find a number VI, though.
boots of swiftness: he could change his boots and ditch his gloves
robe of eyes: his robe slot is free. He'd never be surprised.
robe of stars: that luck bonus is tempting
amulet of the planes: always handy.


**


Matt (lvl 27)
Human Wizard (Generalist) 27; medium humanoid; HD 27d4+135; hp 204; Init +4; Spd 40 ft.; AC 29 (touch 21, flat-footed 25); Base Atk +14; Grp +13; Atk +14 (1d4-1/19-20, MW dagger); SA spells; SQ spells; SV Fort +21 Ref +20 Will +23; Str 8 Dex 18 Con 20 Int 32 Wis 13 Cha 10.

Skills: Concentration +36, Knowledge (arcana) +42, Spellcraft +46, others that don't concern us.

Feats: Scribe scroll (B, 1st), Combat Casting (B, human, 1st), Spell Focus (1st), Heighten Spell (3rd), Enlarge Spell (B, 5th), Greater Spell Focus (6th), Empower Spell (9th), Extend Spell (B, 10th), Maximize Spell (12th), Quicken Spell (15th), Widen Spell (B, 15th), Still Spell (18th), Silent Spell (B, 20th).

Epic Feats: AMC (21st), AMC (23rd), AMC (24th), AMC (26th), MF (27th)

Spell Save DC: 21 + Spell Level (+2 GSF)

Spells per Day: 4/7/7/7/6/6/6/10/5/5

Wealth (lvl 27) 1,968,300 gp:

[Tome of clear thought +5 (137,500)]
Headband of intellect +6 (36,000)
Bracers of armor +8 (64,000)
Amulet of health +6 (36,000)
Cloak of resistance +5 (25,000)
Boots of springing and striding (5500)
Gloves of dexterity +6 (36,000)
Boccob's blessed book (12,500)
Heward's handy haversack (2000)
Ring of protection +5 (50,000)
Ring of wizardry VII (490,000)
Goggles of night (12,000)
Greater rod of quickening (170,000)
Dusty rose ioun stone (5000)
Pale green ioun stone (30,000)
Orange ioun stone (30,000)
Robe of stars (58,000)
Mirror of mental prowess (175,000)
Iron flask (170,000)

Matt's gone for a ring of wizardry VII, a mirror of mental prowess, an iron flask (because it's fun) and a robe of stars. I'll underline epic magic items. The ring is his #1 item; his rod, flask and mirror are probably #2 items. I guess the tome should probably be considered as such as well. He's got 403.8K left.


**


Matt (lvl 30)
Human Wizard (Generalist) 30; medium humanoid; HD 30d4+150; hp 226; Init +4; Spd 60 ft.; AC 29 (touch 21, flat-footed 25); Base Atk +15; Grp +14; Atk +15 (1d4-1/19-20, MW dagger); SA spells; SQ evasion, spells; SV Fort +23 Ref +22 Will +25; Str 8 Dex 18 Con 20 Int 35 Wis 13 Cha 10.

Skills: Concentration +38, Knowledge (arcana) +45, Spellcraft +49, Tumble +24, others that don't concern us.

Feats: Scribe scroll (B, 1st), Combat Casting (B, human, 1st), Spell Focus (1st), Heighten Spell (3rd), Enlarge Spell (B, 5th), Greater Spell Focus (6th), Empower Spell (9th), Extend Spell (B, 10th), Maximize Spell (12th), Quicken Spell (15th), Widen Spell (B, 15th), Still Spell (18th), Silent Spell (B, 20th).

Epic Feats: AMC (21st), AMC (23rd), AMC (24th), AMC (26th), MF (27th), AMC (29th), AMC (30th)

Spell Save DC: 22 + Spell Level (+2 GSF)

Spells per Day: 4/7/7/7/7/6/6/10/6/5

Wealth (lvl 27) 2,700,000 gp:

[Tome of clear thought +5 (137,500)]
Headband of intellect +8 (640,000) [#1]
Bracers of armor +8 (64,000)
Amulet of health +6 (36,000)
Cloak of resistance +5 (25,000)
Boots of Swiftness (256,000)
Boccob's blessed book (12,500)
Heward's handy haversack (2000)
Ring of protection +5 (50,000)
Ring of wizardry VII (490,000)
Goggles of night (12,000)
Greater rod of quickening (170,000)
Dusty rose ioun stone (5000)
Pale green ioun stone (30,000)
Orange ioun stone (30,000)
Robe of stars (58,000)
Mirror of mental prowess (175,000)
Iron flask (170,000)

Remaining: 337K


**


Matt (lvl 33)
Human Wizard (Generalist) 33; medium humanoid; HD 33d4+231; hp 315; Init +4; Spd 60 ft.; AC 31 (touch 23, flat-footed 25); Base Atk +17; Grp +16; Atk +17 (1d4-1/19-20, MW dagger); SA spells; SQ evasion, spells; SV Fort +26 Ref +25 Will +29; Str 8 Dex 23 Con 25 Int 36 Wis 18 Cha 10.

Skills: Concentration +43, Knowledge (arcana) +48, Spellcraft +52, Tumble +24, others that don't concern us.

Feats: Scribe scroll (B, 1st), Combat Casting (B, human, 1st), Spell Focus (1st), Heighten Spell (3rd), Enlarge Spell (B, 5th), Greater Spell Focus (6th), Empower Spell (9th), Extend Spell (B, 10th), Maximize Spell (12th), Quicken Spell (15th), Widen Spell (B, 15th), Still Spell (18th), Silent Spell (B, 20th).

Epic Feats: AMC (21st), AMC (23rd), AMC (24th), AMC (26th), MF (27th), AMC (29th), AMC (30th), AMC (32nd), AMC (33rd)

Spell Save DC: 23 + Spell Level (+2 GSF)

Spells per Day: 4/8/7/7/7/7/6/10/6/6

Wealth (lvl 27) 3,593,700 gp:

[Tome of clear thought +5 (137,500)]
[Manual of bodily health +5 (137,500)]
[Manual of quickness of action +5 (137,500)]
[Tome of understanding +5 (137,500)]

Headband of intellect +8 (640,000) [#1]
Ring of wizardry VII (490,000)
Cloak of epic resistance +6 (360,000)
Boots of swiftness (256,000)
Bracers of armor +8 (64,000)
Amulet of health +6 (36,000)
Boccob's blessed book (12,500)
Heward's handy haversack (2000)
Ring of protection +5 (50,000)
Goggles of night (12,000)
Greater rod of quickening (170,000)
Dusty rose ioun stone (5000)
Pale green ioun stone (30,000)
Orange ioun stone (30,000)
Robe of stars (58,000)
Mirror of mental prowess (175,000)
Iron flask (170,000)

Matt bought some books, and wonders why he didn't think of it earlier. He also got a cloak of epic resistance +6. 483.2K remains.

Suggested Defensive Suite:

• Mind blank. 8th level slot. Extended 8 times for a 9-day duration, he doesn't need to cast this too often.
• Spell turning. 8th-level slot. Twice empowered and four times extended, it reflects 2d4+12 spell levels and lasts through his waking hours.
• Foresight. 9th-level slot. Extended 8 times. Matt is never surprised or flat-footed.
• Moment of Prescience. 8th-level slot. Extended 8 times. Cast this once a week or so.
• Stoneskin. 4th level slot. Extended 8 times. Lasts all day.
• Protection from energy. 3 x 3rd level slots to cover cold, electricity and fire, at least. Extended 8 times. Lasts all day.
• Water breathing. 3rd-level slot. Extended 8 times. He may as well - he only has to cast it every few weeks.
• Overland flight. 5th-level slot. You guessed it - Extended 8 times. Cast 1/week.
• Heroism. 3rd-level slot. Extended 8 times. Lasts all day. Morale bonus is nice as it stacks.
• False life. 2nd-level slot. 4 x Empowered = 3d10+30hp, which ain't bad.

Possibilities in the Offensive Suite:

Finger of Death. Prepared as a Heightened spell in a 9th-level slot.

• x8 Heighten. DC 40.
• x6 Heighten +Still +Silent. DC 38.

Wail of the Banshee. 9th-level slot.

• x8 Heighten. DC 40.

Meteor Swarm. 9th-level slot.

• x4 Empower. DC 32. 72d6 +24d6 bludgeoning

Dominate Monster. 9th-level slot.

• x8 Heighten. DC 40.
• x2 Heighten +Still +Silent. DC 38.

Horrid Wilting. 8th-level slot.

• x4 Empower. DC 31. 60d6.

Disintegrate.
[A] Prepared as a Heightened spell in a 9th-level slot.

• x8 Heighten. DC 40. 40d6.

Prepared as a Maximized spell in a 9th-level slot.

• x4 Empower. DC 29. 240+80d6.
• x8 Heighten. DC 37. 240 points.

[C] Prepared in a 6th-level slot.

• x4 Empower. DC 29. 120d6.
• x2 Empower, x4 Heighten. DC 33. 80d6.

Delayed blast fireball. 7th-level slot.

• x4 Empower. DC 30. 60d6.

 

[Sepulchrave II]

Reserved for Thomas.

 

[Cheiromancer]

A preliminary version of Jake. Identical to Matt except for the epic feats, and a bit of equipment (he needs more cash for spell research).

Jake the Seed Specialist (lvl 20)
Human Wizard (Generalist) 20; medium humanoid; HD 20d4+100; hp 152; Init +4; Spd 40 ft.; AC 29 (touch 21, flat-footed 25); Base Atk +10; Grp +9; Atk +10 (1d4-1/19-20, MW dagger); SA spells; SQ spells; SV Fort +17 Ref +16 Will +19; Str 8 Dex 18 Con 20 Int 31 Wis 13 Cha 10.

Skills: Concentration +29, Knowledge (arcana) +34, Spellcraft +36, others that don't concern us.

Feats: Scribe scroll (B, 1st), Combat Casting (B, human, 1st), Spell Focus (1st), Heighten Spell (3rd), Enlarge Spell (B, 5th), Greater Spell Focus (6th), Empower Spell (9th), Extend Spell (B, 10th), Maximize Spell (12th), Quicken Spell (15th), Widen Spell (B, 15th), Still Spell (18th), Silent Spell (B, 20th).

Spell Save DC: 20 + Spell Level (+2 GSF)

Wealth (lvl 20) 760,000 gp:

[Tome of clear thought +5 (137,500)]
Headband of intellect +6 (36,000)
Bracers of armor +8 (64,000)
Amulet of health +6 (36,000)
Gloves of dexterity +6 (36,000)
Cloak of resistance +5 (25,000)
Boots of Striding and Springing (5500)
Boccob's blessed book (12,500)
Heward's handy haversack (2000)
Ring of protection +5 (50,000)
Ring of wizardry IV (100,000)
Goggles of night (12,000)
Greater rod of maximization (121,500)
Dusty rose ioun stone (5000)
Pale green ioun stone (30,000)
Orange ioun stone (30,000)

Which leaves Jake 58,000 gp, to spend on scrolls, potions etc.


**

Jake the Seed Specialist (lvl 21)
Human Wizard (Generalist) 21; medium humanoid; HD 21d4+105; hp 159; Init +4; Spd 40 ft.; AC 29 (touch 21, flat-footed 25); Base Atk +11; Grp +10; Atk +11 (1d4-1/19-20, MW dagger); SA spells; SQ spells; SV Fort +17 Ref +16 Will +19; Str 8 Dex 18 Con 20 Int 31 Wis 13 Cha 10.

Skills: Concentration +30, Knowledge (arcana) +35, Spellcraft +39, others that don't concern us.

Feats: Scribe scroll (B, 1st), Combat Casting (B, human, 1st), Spell Focus (1st), Heighten Spell (3rd), Enlarge Spell (B, 5th), Greater Spell Focus (6th), Empower Spell (9th), Extend Spell (B, 10th), Maximize Spell (12th), Quicken Spell (15th), Widen Spell (B, 15th), Still Spell (18th), Silent Spell (B, 20th).

Epic Feats: Epic Spellcasting (21st)

Spell Save DC: 20 + Spell Level (+2 GSF)

Spells per Day: 4/7/7/6/10/6/6/5/5/5 + 1 epic

Wealth (lvl 21) 926,100 gp:

[Tome of clear thought +5 (137,500)]
Headband of intellect +6 (36,000)
Bracers of armor +8 (64,000)
Amulet of health +6 (36,000)
Gloves of dexterity +6 (36,000)
Cloak of resistance +5 (25,000)
Boots of Striding and Springing (5500)
Boccob's blessed book (12,500)
Heward's handy haversack (2000)
Ring of protection +5 (50,000)
Ring of wizardry IV (100,000)
Goggles of night (12,000)
Greater rod of maximization (121,500)
Dusty rose ioun stone (5000)
Pale green ioun stone (30,000)
Orange ioun stone (30,000)

Three epic spells (USP 24 each): 72,000

He's got 152,100 gp left.


**

Jake (lvl 24)
Human Wizard (Generalist) 24; medium humanoid; HD 24d4+120; hp 182; Init +4; Spd 40 ft.; AC 29 (touch 21, flat-footed 25); Base Atk +12; Grp +11; Atk +12 (1d4-1/19-20, MW dagger); SA spells; SQ spells; SV Fort +19 Ref +18 Will +21; Str 8 Dex 18 Con 20 Int 32 Wis 13 Cha 10.

Skills: Concentration +33, Knowledge (arcana) +38, Spellcraft +42, others that don't concern us.

Feats: Scribe scroll (B, 1st), Combat Casting (B, human, 1st), Spell Focus (1st), Heighten Spell (3rd), Enlarge Spell (B, 5th), Greater Spell Focus (6th), Empower Spell (9th), Extend Spell (B, 10th), Maximize Spell (12th), Quicken Spell (15th), Widen Spell (B, 15th), Still Spell (18th), Silent Spell (B, 20th).

Epic Feats: Epic Spellcasting x 3 (21st, 23rd, 24th)

Spell Save DC: 21 + Spell Level (+2 GSF)

Spells per Day: 4/7/7/7/10/6/6/6/5/5 + 3 epic

Wealth (lvl 24) 1,382,400 gp:

[Tome of clear thought +5 (137,500)]
Headband of intellect +6 (36,000)
Bracers of armor +8 (64,000)
Amulet of health +6 (36,000)
Gloves of dexterity +6 (36,000)
Cloak of resistance +5 (25,000)
Boots of Striding and Springing (5500)
Boccob's blessed book (12,500)
Heward's handy haversack (2000)
Ring of protection +5 (50,000)
Ring of wizardry IV (100,000)
Goggles of night (12,000)
Greater rod of quickening (170,000)
Dusty rose ioun stone (5000)
Pale green ioun stone (30,000)
Orange ioun stone (30,000)

9 epic spells (USP 27) 243,000

Cash: 388,900 gp. He's traded in his maximizing rod for a quickening rod.


**


Jake (lvl 27)
Human Wizard (Generalist) 27; medium humanoid; HD 27d4+135; hp 204; Init +4; Spd 40 ft.; AC 29 (touch 21, flat-footed 25); Base Atk +14; Grp +13; Atk +14 (1d4-1/19-20, MW dagger); SA spells; SQ spells; SV Fort +21 Ref +20 Will +23; Str 8 Dex 18 Con 20 Int 32 Wis 13 Cha 10.

Skills: Concentration +36, Knowledge (arcana) +42, Spellcraft +46, others that don't concern us.

Feats: Scribe scroll (B, 1st), Combat Casting (B, human, 1st), Spell Focus (1st), Heighten Spell (3rd), Enlarge Spell (B, 5th), Greater Spell Focus (6th), Empower Spell (9th), Extend Spell (B, 10th), Maximize Spell (12th), Quicken Spell (15th), Widen Spell (B, 15th), Still Spell (18th), Silent Spell (B, 20th).

Epic Feats: Epic Spellcasting x 5 (21st, 23rd, 24th, 26th, 27th)

Spell Save DC: 21 + Spell Level (+2 GSF)

Spells per Day: 4/7/7/7/6/6/6/6/5/5 + 5 epic

Wealth (lvl 27) 1,968,300 gp:

[Tome of clear thought +5 (137,500)]
Headband of intellect +6 (36,000)
Bracers of armor +8 (64,000)
Amulet of health +6 (36,000)
Cloak of resistance +5 (25,000)
Boots of springing and striding (5500)
Gloves of dexterity +6 (36,000)
Boccob's blessed book (12,500)
Heward's handy haversack (2000)
Ring of protection +5 (50,000)
Goggles of night (12,000)
Greater rod of quickening (170,000)
Dusty rose ioun stone (5000)
Pale green ioun stone (30,000)
Orange ioun stone (30,000)
Robe of stars (58,000)
Mirror of mental prowess (175,000)
Iron flask (170,000)

15 epic spells (USP 30) 450,000

Jake's sold the ring of wizardry VII to pay for spell research. He has a mirror of mental prowess, an iron flask and a robe of stars. He's got 443.8K left.


**


Jake (lvl 30)
Human Wizard (Generalist) 30; medium humanoid; HD 30d4+150; hp 226; Init +4; Spd 60 ft.; AC 29 (touch 21, flat-footed 25); Base Atk +15; Grp +14; Atk +15 (1d4-1/19-20, MW dagger); SA spells; SQ evasion, spells; SV Fort +23 Ref +22 Will +25; Str 8 Dex 18 Con 20 Int 35 Wis 13 Cha 10.

Skills: Concentration +38, Knowledge (arcana) +45, Spellcraft +49, Tumble +24, others that don't concern us.

Feats: Scribe scroll (B, 1st), Combat Casting (B, human, 1st), Spell Focus (1st), Heighten Spell (3rd), Enlarge Spell (B, 5th), Greater Spell Focus (6th), Empower Spell (9th), Extend Spell (B, 10th), Maximize Spell (12th), Quicken Spell (15th), Widen Spell (B, 15th), Still Spell (18th), Silent Spell (B, 20th).

Epic Feats: Epic Spellcasting x 7 (21st, 23rd, 24th, 26th, 27th, 29th, 30th)

Spell Save DC: 22 + Spell Level (+2 GSF)

Spells per Day: 4/7/7/7/7/6/6/6/6/5 + 7 epic

Wealth (lvl 27) 2,700,000 gp:

[Tome of clear thought +5 (137,500)]
Headband of intellect +8 (640,000) [#1]
Bracers of armor +8 (64,000)
Amulet of health +6 (36,000)
Cloak of resistance +5 (25,000)
Boots of Swiftness (256,000)
Boccob's blessed book (12,500)
Heward's handy haversack (2000)
Ring of protection +5 (50,000)
Goggles of night (12,000)
Greater rod of quickening (170,000)
Dusty rose ioun stone (5000)
Pale green ioun stone (30,000)
Orange ioun stone (30,000)
Robe of stars (58,000)
Mirror of mental prowess (175,000)
Iron flask (170,000)

15 epic spells (USP 33) 555,000


Remaining: 332K


**


Jake (lvl 33)
Human Wizard (Generalist) 33; medium humanoid; HD 33d4+231; hp 315; Init +4; Spd 60 ft.; AC 31 (touch 23, flat-footed 25); Base Atk +17; Grp +16; Atk +17 (1d4-1/19-20, MW dagger); SA spells; SQ evasion, spells; SV Fort +26 Ref +25 Will +29; Str 8 Dex 23 Con 25 Int 36 Wis 18 Cha 10.

Skills: Concentration +43, Knowledge (arcana) +48, Spellcraft +52, Tumble +24, others that don't concern us.

Feats: Scribe scroll (B, 1st), Combat Casting (B, human, 1st), Spell Focus (1st), Heighten Spell (3rd), Enlarge Spell (B, 5th), Greater Spell Focus (6th), Empower Spell (9th), Extend Spell (B, 10th), Maximize Spell (12th), Quicken Spell (15th), Widen Spell (B, 15th), Still Spell (18th), Silent Spell (B, 20th).

Epic Feats: Epic Spellcasting x 9 (21st, 23rd, 24th, 26th, 27th, 29th, 30th, 32nd, 33rd)

Spell Save DC: 23 + Spell Level (+2 GSF)

Spells per Day: 4/8/7/7/7/7/6/6/6/6 + 9 epic

Wealth (lvl 27) 3,593,700 gp:

[Tome of clear thought +5 (137,500)]
[Manual of bodily health +5 (137,500)]
[Manual of quickness of action +5 (137,500)]
[Tome of understanding +5 (137,500)]

Headband of intellect +8 (640,000) [#1]
Cloak of epic resistance +6 (360,000)
Boots of swiftness (256,000)
Bracers of armor +8 (64,000)
Amulet of health +6 (36,000)
Boccob's blessed book (12,500)
Heward's handy haversack (2000)
Ring of protection +5 (50,000)
Goggles of night (12,000)
Greater rod of quickening (170,000)
Dusty rose ioun stone (5000)
Pale green ioun stone (30,000)
Orange ioun stone (30,000)
Robe of stars (58,000)
Mirror of mental prowess (175,000)
Iron flask (170,000)
15 epic spells (USP 36) 600,000

Jake bought some books, and wonders why he didn't think of it earlier. He also got a cloak of epic resistance +6. 438.2K remains.

His epic spells will have to cover the bases that Matt has. Some of his buffs will have to last for days or weeks to match Matt’s multiple extensions.

Matt’s Potential Spell Array:

Suggested Defensive Suite:

• Mind blank. 8th level slot. Extended 8 times for a 9-day duration, he doesn't need to cast this too often.
• Spell turning. 8th-level slot. Twice empowered and four times extended, it reflects 2d4+12 spell levels and lasts through his waking hours.
• Foresight. 9th-level slot. Extended 8 times. Jake is never surprised or flat-footed.
• Moment of Prescience. 8th-level slot. Extended 8 times. Cast this once a week or so.
• Stoneskin. 4th level slot. Extended 8 times. Lasts all day.
• Protection from energy. 3 x 3rd level slots to cover cold, electricity and fire, at least. Extended 8 times. Lasts all day.
• Water breathing. 3rd-level slot. Extended 8 times. He may as well - he only has to cast it every few weeks.
• Overland flight. 5th-level slot. You guessed it - Extended 8 times. Cast 1/week.
• Heroism. 3rd-level slot. Extended 8 times. Lasts all day. Morale bonus is nice as it stacks.
• False life. 2nd-level slot. 4 x Empowered = 3d10+30hp, which ain't bad.

Possibilities in the Offensive Suite:

Finger of Death. Prepared as a Heightened spell in a 9th-level slot.

• x8 Heighten. DC 40.
• x6 Heighten +Still +Silent. DC 38.

Wail of the Banshee. 9th-level slot.

• x8 Heighten. DC 40.

Meteor Swarm. 9th-level slot.

• x4 Empower. DC 32. 72d6 +24d6 bludgeoning

Dominate Monster. 9th-level slot.

• x8 Heighten. DC 40.
• x2 Heighten +Still +Silent. DC 38.

Horrid Wilting. 8th-level slot.

• x4 Empower. DC 31. 60d6.

Disintegrate.
[A] Prepared as a Heightened spell in a 9th-level slot.

• x8 Heighten. DC 40. 40d6.

Prepared as a Maximized spell in a 9th-level slot.

• x4 Empower. DC 29. 240+80d6.
• x8 Heighten. DC 37. 240 points.

[C] Prepared in a 6th-level slot.

• x4 Empower. DC 29. 120d6.
• x2 Empower, x4 Heighten. DC 33. 80d6.

Delayed blast fireball. 7th-level slot.

• x4 Empower. DC 30. 60d6.

 

[Sepulchrave II]

Do you want to use those numbers up to a certain point, and then scale them thereafter? For instance, you could keep the numbers up to Ag 10, and thereafter convert them according to 10 + 0.6* (Ag -10). That would make a Ag 33 creature (a gloom, say) CR 24. A very old gold dragon would be CR 34. And so on.

I'm looking particularly at the more powerful monsters, Ag 50-90. Many of these seem terribly high. I'm not sure exactly where the cut-off would be; the formula you suggest actually looks quite workable.

The MM (p.300) suggests that a monster's good save bonus should ideally be equal to (CR x 1.5) and its bad save equal to its CR. Obviously, these numbers are unsustainable into epic levels. Good save bonus = CR is probably OK for a target at epic levels when designing monsters; maybe a little too high, if anything.

I think an optimized character with AMC can probably force a save with a DC of (Character Level +10) averaged across his career with Heightened spells in a focussed school. Given the disparity in the saving throws of epic monsters who don't have 'all good' saves, I suspect a non-optimized character (whose DCs = his level), or an optimized metamagic specialist employing half of his AMCs on Empowers, Maximizes and Quickens can trump a creature's weak save as often as not.

Thing is, I don't want to get fixated on saving throws when determining CR - however important, they're only part of the picture. But the CR of many creatures in the ELH also affects SR - e.g. abominations are SR = CR+12: this means that SR will always be meaningful to a party with an average level equal to the monster's CR. The reason that it becomes irrelevant in Ag is that this relationship is no longer maintained.

Edit: for a long time I railed against the idea of CR determining SR, rather than SR informing CR. It seemd counter-intuitive, and too 'meta.' In practice, it works really well.

 

[Cheiromancer]

UK has increased his estimate of the value of equipment since a few years ago. At the moment he says it is worth 1/3 of a character's CR. This is especially important if you allow monstrous PCs; then you use those high CR values and add +50% for allowing PC level equipment over and above the equipment specified in the Monster Manual entry. These CRs are the ones labeled "silver rule" in the chart. How about if I call them "silver". And as for an abbreviation... maybe just Ag? (We can pretend official CRs are "chromium", and this is the "chromatic scale")

Matt's save DCs are 22 + spell level with GSF, 20 + spell level without.

I'm kind of feeling that 3/5 of UK's values are about right; at least, post-epic.

I'm not sure what you mean. Do you want to use those numbers up to a certain point, and then scale them thereafter? For instance, you could keep the numbers up to Ag 10, and thereafter convert them according to 10 + 0.6* (Ag -10). That would make a Ag 33 creature (a gloom, say) CR 24. A very old gold dragon would be CR 34. And so on.

Or do you mean something else?

With a 60% scaling factor, hp will increase at a rate of about 20 hp per CR. The rate at which Will and Fort saves will increase is about 80% of CR. Reflex saves don't increase as quickly; about 60% of CR. I don't know how fast save DCs from monsters will increase; they are usually HD based, and it seems as if HD increases at least as fast as CR, maybe twice as fast. Assuming monster ability scores increase as well, I'd guestimate that save DCs increase at about 0.6 to 1.2 times the rate of increase in CR. Probably 0.8 * CR would be fair. For PCs who get +1 to their saves every two levels it means that magical protection will have to improve fairly regularly; another +1 every 2 or 3 levels.

[edit] Oh, and UK recognizes that people will use WotC official wealth guidelines instead of his own formula. I don't think he advocates it anymore, although I think it is superior. At very high levels (just off the charts- probably around 43rd level or so) his formula is level squared x 10,000, but that is for determining the value of artifacts possessed by 100th level characters.

The ELH wealth charts look vastly inflated, but if you consider the x10 "epic surcharge" on most items it might not be too bad. Dunno.

I'd say stick with the level cubed x 100 formula, at least until you want to start pricing artifacts.
original post starts here

Thing is, I don't want to get fixated on saving throws when determining CR - however important, they're only part of the picture. But the CR of many creatures in the ELH also affects SR - e.g. abominations are SR = CR+12: this means that SR will always be meaningful to a party with an average level equal to the monster's CR. The reason that it becomes irrelevant in Ag is that this relationship is no longer maintained.

Edit: for a long time I railed against the idea of CR determining SR, rather than SR informing CR. It seemed counter-intuitive, and too 'meta.' In practice, it works really well.

I agree with the "non-fixation" sentiment. Saving throws and SR are irrelevant for fighter types; they are more concerned with AC, hp, and attack bonuses. Maybe regeneration/fast healing/DR. Ideally there should be monsters that call forth different capacities; some can be dealt with by the spellcasters, others require melee specialists to handle. In one case the fighter-types protect the spellcasters, in the other the spellcasters provide support (especially transportation, cures and buffing) to the fighter-types. Opponents won't always be single monsters either; there will be hordes of attackers, waves of attackers, shoot and run types, etc.. So we shouldn't fixate on a particular type of spell (an individual effecting spell). There should also be creatures that require "thinking outside the box." Diplomacy, deceit, and politics. Or the finding of the McGuffin that foils the enemy's plans.

Still, there should be a dialectic between what we are going to put out there to challenge the party and the resources we are going to give to the party to meet those challenges. The metallic number is a way of saying what a party of a certain level is likely to face. The rules governing epic spellcasters (of all types) give in general terms what they are likely to be able to dish out. In a majority of cases there should be a certain rough parity between the challenge the party is expected to face and the resources they have to face it with.

I'd say we are trying to find a reflective equilibrium between these two sets of considerations. We get a rough idea of what spellcasters can do (based on Matt), and get some kind of handle on how to assign a metallic number to threats that gives parity. Then we use the appropriate threats for different levels (determined by the metallic number) to scale the magic system properly; how fast Matt can pile on AMCs, say, but particularly the rules for Jake's spellcasting. This might lead to a refinement of other rules; treasure, say, or how epic saves work. Or a better determination of the metallic number. If Matt and Jake get out of balance we'll tinker with one, and then the other, until things settle down. And so on; until the various aspects of the rule set are in equilibrium with each other.

A thought about saves and SR; they make some monsters especially difficult for low level creatures, but a push-over once the party's level gets high enough. This is clearest for SR; something goes from impossible to autosucceed in 20 levels. With save-or-die spells the level range is greater, but if a 36th level party is facing challenges from CR 18 to CR 60, then they'll experience this transition too.

I've noticed in my graphs that a lot of the post 100Ag monsters screw up the scale; I think I'm going to remove at least the neutronium and orichalcum constructs. And Alabaster. And the devastation vermin; they are crazy outliers on my CR/HD charts. Maybe some others. And I'll put in a column that defines this new approximation to CR (reduce Ag values by 40% of the amount they exceed 10). Maybe Palladium (Pd)?

 

[Cheiromancer]

I think Matt should take Automatic Metamagic Capacity a few times before Metamagic Freedom. With one he can Still or Silence his spells on the fly, or Heighten them a trifle. With two he can spontaneously Empower his spells; if he wants more oomph he can prepare them Maximized. With three he can spontaneously Maximize his spells and can prepare them Empowered. With four he can spontaneously quicken them. At this point he'd probably want MF, so he can double Empower things. But taking a fifth AMC would not be unreasonable; still, quickened spells are a great way to escape grapples. I suppose if he is wants to boost his Save DCs as much as possible he'd take it a little sooner, as MF allows spells to be Heightened above 9th level.

Are you going to allow Extra Spellcasting Capacity (to add 2 9th level spell slots)? If so, note that the utility of ESC increases the more AMCs he has; they represent two more 9th level slots that can be massively metamagicked. Each AMC adds 1 level of metamagic to 50-some spell slots (although he'll only use a fraction of those), with a value of about 50 spell levels. Each ESC adds 18 levels plus twice the number of AMCs. Depending on how many spells he uses in a day that will be very attractive after 5 or 10 AMCs.

And speaking of ioun stones, what do you think of UK's optional rule that 4 stones provides double the bonus of one stone, 9 stones triple the bonus, etc.? (page 89 of the bestiary). Not really important until you have lots of gp to burn, I guess, but it's an interesting idea.

 

[Sepulchrave II]

I think Matt should take Automatic Metamagic Capacity a few times before Metamagic Freedom.

OK.

Are you going to allow Extra Spellcasting Capacity (to add 2 9th level spell slots)?

Yep, but I'm assuming that Matt won't be investing in them - he's pure metamagic, all the way, and will rely on his ring of wizardry upgrade for more slots post level-30.

Matt has a cousin, btw - Thomas. Thomas is undecided on his route, so he'll be mixing jacobean and metamagic styles until he has a clearer handle on things. Thomas will likely drop a feat or three into ESC - he likes to keep his options open.

 

[Cheiromancer]

What kinds of spells does Matt prepare? Any scrolls or wands that he keeps available? There's a generic build in PHB II; should we use that one?

 

[Sepulchrave II]

Character wealth vs. predicted stat buff item (assuming no more than 25% of wealth).

I include a subversive option that character wealth advancement be capped at 200K per level after 20th, and that the pattern become linear. I haven't given it too much thought - I actually like UK's suggestion. Just thought I'd throw it out there anyway, in case we feel the need to pare back character wealth some more.

 

[Cheiromancer]

Where did you get the WotC progression from? Part of it is on page 23 of the ELH, but it only goes up to level 40.

I've been fiddling with regression analysis on the Pd scores vs hp and the saving throws. It looks like hp is approximately 0.25 * Pd² + 7 * Pd. So damage should increase quadratically to keep pace. Fort and Will are about 0.9 * Pd, and Ref is about 0.75 * Pd.

Using UK's wealth formula you can count on ability scores increasing at a rate of +3/4 levels (+1 through level up bonuses, +2 through stat buffs). Which means opponents' saves are increasing faster than the save DCs; the gap is about 0.5 per level (assuming opponents' Pd = level). That means 3 AMC every 6 levels has to be spent on Heightening an effect in order to keep pace. Save or die spells can be used as long as a caster is disciplined with his feats, or restricts their use to lower Pd opponents.

A seed generalist will have to devote all additional SP to heightening spells, or the save DCs won't keep up. That or cast the spells on lower Pd opponents. The use of Humfs is the brightest hope for a Jacobean caster who wishes to use such spells on equal-Pd opponents.

If you use the WotC wealth formula the save DCs will leap ahead; that probably wouldn't be a good idea.

[edit]Hmmm. Regression analysis indicates that the WotC formula is 0.0043 * level^4.0609, with an R² of 0.9995. I bet that exponent is supposed to be 4. How interesting; I always thought it was exponential.