Epic Skills: Broken but HILARIOUS

[wingsandsword]

I'll agree with those here who say that it's not meant to be common, or even normally possible for these things to happen.

Yes, Conan, or Aragorn, or Grey Mouser couldn't do these things. They also aren't Level 30 or 40+. The overwhelming majority of fantasy fiction characters would be well under 20th level, which is what D&D is normally meant for. In 2nd Edition AD&D, mortal progression even stopped at 30th level, the 30+ range is really meant for those who blur the line beteween man and god, and beings of legend who are beyond any normal ken.

What about legends of people so skilled they did impossible things? Things like Paul Bunyan and Pecos Bill, or heroes of Wuxia and Anime, that is what those skill checks are meant to represent. Warriors who could defeat entire armies singlehandedly silver-tongued devils who could talk entire nations out of their wealth, or sages so learned they know the entire contents of their whole libraries by heart.

Yes, you hear those stories and go "that's impossible", but Magic Missile is also impossible, it's both part of the fantasy. Some people like having characters who become so skilled they can dance on a cloud or do the "Fonz" thing with a lock, and it's every bit as valid as somebody who wants to throw Meteor Swarms and True Resurrections around every day, they are both extraordinary characters of fantasy who go beyond not only realism, but most of fantasy.

If you don't want people to climb on the ceiling with a DC 100 climb check, your game will probably never get to the point where a DC 100 anything check will ever come up. In games where they show up, it's not too bad when you consider the sheer amount of magical might and resources available to characters of those levels.

 

[VirgilCaine]

Doesn't the Gray Mouser improvise a method to breathe earth after he's buried alive at one point ? :\

WTF? Seriously. WTF?

Couldn't a level 50 character have Strength 30 by spending all of his extra ability points on strength?

Help me out here... can someone with 30 Strength lift something that could be considered extraordinary?

+12 from level. With an 18 (or a 16 for a half-orc or a 14 for an orc) you could have Str 30 buck naked.

Break an iron door barehanded? +10 Str bonus gets past the 10 hardness.

 

[melkorspawn]

climb on the ceiling with a DC 100 climb check

I wonder if Fred Astaire did that with a climb check or with a Perform: Dance check?

 

[Sejs]

I know about that, but those people are lucky. Skill doesn't allow you defy the laws of physics. A Level 100 with 103 ranks of Tumble is GUARANTEED not to have even a scracth, and land on his feet, even if he rolls a 1 on the skill check!

Anyway, the other part of the point is just how funny it is thinking about doing these things with absolutely no agic whatsoever. Sorry, I'm not buying it. Some, I think, are possible for sure. I can buy the Fonz effect for Disable Device, it's a stretch but I'm cool with that. I could even maybe accept scaling sheer ceilings (as long as the character has suction tools at least), but BALANCING ON A CLOUD IS OUT OF THE QUESTION. If a fighter wants to be in the clouds, give him a fly spell, heh.

Ah. I think I see the problem. Scale and the Perception of Scale.

Sure, a level 100 character with 103 ranks in Tumble can drop 30,000 feet and not take a scratch. A level 117 character with max ranks in Balance can run on clouds without even having to roll to see if they succeed or not.

Level 100. Level 117.

Now as an aside, go ahead and take a look a Deities and Demigods. One thing you might note is that other than their Divine Rank, most of the Big Kid On The Block gods have around 40 or so class levels.

40.

The guy who can run on clouds has almost three times as many levels as a greater god. Yet, despite this, you see a problem with Mister Greater God x3 being able to perform a feat of skill that another character of a different class can perform at level five.

Seriously, half the point of epic skill checks is the idea that if you are a big enough of a badass at whatever, there is no longer a glass ceiling.

 

[Goolpsy]

I really do wonder how so many people can miss the point of Epic.
Epic from a dictionary:
A long narrative poem telling of a hero's deeds
or
Very imposing or impressive; surpassing the ordinary (especially in size or scale)

meaning the point they hit where tales would be told of them.

If you've seen the 'disney Hercules' you see that once he hits "epic". The common people begins to make plays to show in their theatre.. they paint his face/body or something on potery and such.

Epic IS the point where u become a Myth and/or a Legend.
The myth/legend about jesus being able to walk on water.. was it his belief? i mgiht have been. Was it his exeptionel skill? Could be that too. Or was it by the power of gods? thats also an explaination...

My point is.. if u can hear a myth about a man being able to walk on water.. or leaping on clouds (Ki/ninja masters) Why shoulds your Character be able to fall from any height etc when u become a Myth too?

I'd nearly go as far as saying.. that if he couldn't do stuff like that.. he SIMPLY WASN'T EPIC!

 

[Quasqueton]

You have issues with this one? Ok, lets do the math on this one:

[snip math]

So, you have a problem with the 62 level rogue tumbling from 30,000 feet and taking no damage? But that same Rogue has an average of 343 hps. On that same fall diving head first into concrete he averages 70 pts of damage. This won't kill him unless he fails a saving throw on a 1.

I am sorry.. it's a fantasy game.

Bravo, Macbrea! I love it when someone does the math and shows the facts of the matter, rather than argues the feel of the matter. Damn, that's a fine post.

Quasqueton

 

[Muaythaidaddy]

I like epic feats. When characters reach 20 + level, they should be able to realistically attempt near-impossible feats, Gilgamesh-style.

 

[tylermalan]

Damned salmons! they are broken!

Man that's funny

 

[Coredump]

Don't worry folks, Anubis has kind of made it a habit to post an initial complaint... and then vanish.

 

[Doctor Shaft]

Epic characters in D&D are epic because of their abilities, not necessarily what they've done. A level 10 character can become a legend in any story, but we all know it's mostly because of WHAT he's done, not HOW he did it.

And as the point has been made before, imitating a level 1 spell for free via an insane skill check is hardly "ridiculous."

One last thought. I know some folks can accept "Asian" flavor in their "Western European" games. They don't like fighters with big swords getting beat down by bare-fisted monks. They think it's ridiculous clashing of fantasy elements. That's cool. Some will also find the epic skill sets over the top for "mundane warriors." That's cool too.

But then they readily accept the low-level spell "Enlarge Person." I don't care if you like the sorcery element more than the superhero element, Enlarge Person is just, in any book, simply over-the-top and ridiculous. How in the high realms does a low-level wizard of hardly any repute manage to increase the size and matter of a man, and his clothing, and his possessions, and somehow not mess the guy's metabolism up, rip his clothing, or destroy any of the items and possessions he carries? How is enlarge person not an epic spell? The ramifications of almost instantaneously increasing a person's size and fighting ability (due to size increase) is so enormous, that I cringe every time I see it invoked as a strategy for play.

"Quick, use the enlarge person scroll on your monk... then fight." How does a monk live with himself? How comical is the story? "Cornered by the bandit thieves, Ichi the monk quickly went into battle action, and like He-Man he used his scroll of enlargement to make himself big again so that he could fight. And after the battle was over, he shrunk back down, none of his possessions or clothing affected by the ordeal."

That takes quite a bit of stretching of the imagination, and it more resembles a children's saturday morning cartoon. (Hulk Smash!) I'd rather see a guy swim up a waterfall. That, at least, takes far less "acceptance" considering the difficulty and setting of the maneuver.