Epic Sorcerers and Spells known

[reiella]

Well right now, my campaign is approaching epic levels, and I'm contemplating an issue one of my players brought up.

Namely, sorcerer spell access being kinda weak post 20.

I've already decided that sorcerers will not be able to learn/make use of Spell Seeds.

Party comp is Fighter, Sorcerer, and Wizard.

Initially I was just inclined to say 'just take Spell Knowledge'...

But at the same time, I can understand quite well the potential for frustration as the wizard continues to learn new spells without having to expend feats...

I am considering allowing 1 spell known every other level (ie, 22,24,26), providing that the sorcerer performs some tasks for the fey (his bloodline).

However, at the same, I'm hesitant, as I would like the Fighter and Wizard to gain 'some boon' as well.

I intend (And am quite adamant on 30) being the 'End'. The wizard may eventually get access to Epic Spellcasting (Spell Seeds), but again, that's a Feat cost, but may be part of a benefit to consider. Mostly I'm curious as to ideas or suggestions for how I could balance the sorcerer getting a spell known or two every other level.

 

[Zad]

I'm not quite clear on the problem especially when you bring epic seeds into it. As I understand it, the seeds are just components for making epic spells. A sorcerer can cast epic spells just as readily as a wizard so I'm not seeing the drawback there. Now if you've decided that Sorcerers can't cast epic spells in your campaign, then that's of course your perrogative. In that case since you are taking away something, it's reasonable to replace it with something else.

Or is it you're concerned that the Sorcerer doesn't continue to learn new spells post 20? I'm not really seeing this as a big problem - character development in classes is basically frozen at 20 for all classes, outside of feats and PrCs. It would seem that letting the sorcerer continue to gain known spells starts to eliminate one of the key differentiation points between them and wizards. Yes the wizard gains new spells but the Sorcerer casts more spells per day and always has. That's how the classes are balanced and I don't think epic levels change that really. A wizard with money can just buy more spells anyway.

And of course there's always spell trigger items - a Sorcerer can use any spell he wants out of a staff for instance, so he's not totally cut off from spells.

 

[reiella]

I'm not quite clear on the problem especially when you bring epic seeds into it. As I understand it, the seeds are just components for making epic spells. A sorcerer can cast epic spells just as readily as a wizard so I'm not seeing the drawback there. Now if you've decided that Sorcerers can't cast epic spells in your campaign, then that's of course your perrogative. In that case since you are taking away something, it's reasonable to replace it with something else.

Actually that's part of it, the sorcerer will never be able to use epic seeds (the Epic Spellcasting feat) in my game, the wizard may be able at a later point.

Or is it you're concerned that the Sorcerer doesn't continue to learn new spells post 20? I'm not really seeing this as a big problem - character development in classes is basically frozen at 20 for all classes, outside of feats and PrCs. It would seem that letting the sorcerer continue to gain known spells starts to eliminate one of the key differentiation points between them and wizards. Yes the wizard gains new spells but the Sorcerer casts more spells per day and always has. That's how the classes are balanced and I don't think epic levels change that really. A wizard with money can just buy more spells anyway.

This is actually it. And it isn't quite frozen for all classes. Wizards still gain 2 free spells per level. Fighters gain their sick bonus feats, etc. Sorcerer increases his caster level and gets the same feat progression as the Wizard, although their casts per day will be higher than the wizard at base as well.

And of course there's always spell trigger items - a Sorcerer can use any spell he wants out of a staff for instance, so he's not totally cut off from spells.

Fair enough point, and part of why I've been leaning towards just saying 'too bad, take feats if you want more spells known'.