Epic Tempest/Fighter analysis

[Trainz]

I was pondering the advantages of the Tempest PrC.

It came to my attention that while you take levels in this class, you don't get your fighter feat at every two levels, so you're losing 2.5 feats. To gain +2 to hit (for someone using two weapon fighting) and +3 to AC. All the other advantages of the PrC are irrelevant, because among many things, one of the first epic feats a meat-shield takes is dire charge, which allows you to make a full attack on a charge.

SO...

An epic tempest character would have to wait until he's level 26 for his 20 fighter levels, so that he can gain a bonus epic fighter feat every two levels. Taking the 5 levels of tempest basically means having 2 epic feats less than a single class fighter. Are the +2 to hit and +3 to AC of the class really worth 2 epic fighter feats ?

My conclusion at this point is that the tempest class is only worth it for more or less levels 10-20. Before that you're developing the class and you don't have access to it's full potential (not considering that you also picked the feats Dodge, Mobility, and Spring Attack, which are not necessarily feats that your particular character build-up planning needed).

All right... agree ? Disagree ? I'm missing something obvious ?

 

[Crothian]

Sure, because you get to fight better with two weapons. I'm sure on a pure number analysis it will come out a bit weak, but what if instead of going to 20th level fighter you went with a second prestige class. You could have 4 levels of fighter, one level of like barbarian or ranger to help get to a 10 level prestige class. 5 levels of the tempest plus 10 levels of this other class and then you can take it epic and get those epic level bonus feats through that class.

 

[Shellman]

I was pondering the advantages of the Tempest PrC.

It came to my attention that while you take levels in this class, you don't get your fighter feat at every two levels, so you're losing 2.5 feats. To gain +2 to hit (for someone using two weapon fighting) and +3 to AC. All the other advantages of the PrC are irrelevant, because among many things, one of the first epic feats a meat-shield takes is dire charge, which allows you to make a full attack on a charge.

SO...

An epic tempest character would have to wait until he's level 26 for his 20 fighter levels, so that he can gain a bonus epic fighter feat every two levels. Taking the 5 levels of tempest basically means having 2 epic feats less than a single class fighter. Are the +2 to hit and +3 to AC of the class really worth 2 epic fighter feats ?

My conclusion at this point is that the tempest class is only worth it for more or less levels 10-20. Before that you're developing the class and you don't have access to it's full potential (not considering that you also picked the feats Dodge, Mobility, and Spring Attack, which are not necessarily feats that your particular character build-up planning needed).

All right... agree ? Disagree ? I'm missing something obvious ?

Are you already a TWF? If you didn't develope the fighter with Dodge, Mobility and Spring Attack in mind then I don't think its advantages to do it at higher levels.

Dodge really only helps out at lower levels anyway. Once you reach Epic level, you are usuall facing bad guys that are going to hit AC's in the high 40's or more anyway.

 

[Kem]

Make up a progression for an Epic Dervish and go 5 Fighter/10Dervish/5 Tempest then Dervish once you hit epic.

Otherwise yes, 5 level PrCs are irritating in that way at epic in general, its not just an issue with tempest.

 

[Trainz]

Interesting input guys.

It's not for a character of mine, just musings for the far future.

I think that for a two-weapon epic combatant I would stick to single classed fighter. Greater Specialization and the Epic version of the feat means 6 more damage.

TWF, ITWF, GTWF, Improved Buckler Defense (apparently it's been errata'ed to also aply to two weapon fighters), Weapon Focus, Greater Weapon Focus, Weapon Spec., Greater Weapon Spec., Combat Expertise, Greater Combat Expertise, Power Attack, Cleave, Great Cleave, Oversized TWF (CAdv), Improved Critical, Improved Init, Resounding Blow (BoED), Close Quarters Fighting... all these are must haves for me for a two weapon fighter. That's 18 feats out of 19 for a 20th level warrior. Maybe Iron Will or Dodge to top it all (IMC, house ruled Dodge to give +1 AC all the time), or Improved Toughness.

Yeah...

 

[ruleslawyer]

If you have to use two weapons, the dervish is a must. 10 levels of dervish beats out straight fighter handily.

 

[Klaus]

Of course, part of the Tempest appeal (the feat versatility) is lost if your two-weapon fighter happens to use a double weapon...

 

[Trainz]

If you have to use two weapons, the dervish is a must. 10 levels of dervish beats out straight fighter handily.

Fig 12 Derv 10 looks nice indeed.