Epic Tier experiences?

[ArcaneSpringboard]

We should be getting more and more campaigns into the Epic Tier now, and I was wondering if people could share their experiences?

Is it worth going to? Does the slog get to be too much?

 

[Dice4Hire]

We should be getting more and more campaigns into the Epic Tier now, and I was wondering if people could share their experiences?

Is it worth going to? Does the slog get to be too much?

I did up to 24th, and though my party was unusual, it was pretty much business as usual. The same rough chance to hit, and damage was about the same. What was different is the PCs ot a lot tougher, and the monsters got more cooler abilities, which tended to slow combats down a bit. More slow, and daze etc that did little to help the monsters, but did a lot to make the fights longer.

That said, I think the new MMIII is gonna change that, and make epic fights more dangerous.

I think it is needed.

 

[Argyle King]

I've played in a few campaigns which went to 30.


In my experience, the monsters do get new and better tricks, but the PCs get more of them, and the ones the PCs have are often better. Unless there is a nasty status effect attached to a monster attack, most PCs will take hits from epic monsters somewhat less seriously than monsters at earlier levels.


There were quite a few encounters in which most of the monsters never ever got a chance to move before dying. The party kept most of them out of the fight with status effects; in parties with a warlord, all of the PCs virtually always went first and got off the first salvo of stun attacks.


One combo which I found to be especially effective was when the party has both a warlord and a psion. The psion can hit the enemy with severe penalties to defenses while the warlord gives the PCs hit and damage bonuses. This rather quickly leads to dead monsters. This is potent pre-epic; at epic it just gets to a whole new level of craziness.

 

[MrMyth]

I'm about halfway through an epic game, and it is certainly a viable experience. The party is definitely very powerful, and fights can take longer - though at this point, half the focus is on making each fight an 'epic' experience, so there isn't much reason to even worry about really small 'random encounter' fights.

I do think MM3 will also help a lot with showing how to keep the PCs challenged and keep combats fast paced and exciting.

Overall, mechanically it remains much the same, if a bit more intense, but the system really does support amping up the flavor to appropriate epic levels. The PCs have the chance to explore myth, take part in the works of the gods, and accomplish deeds that will be remembered through the ages. If that is what you are looking for, than an epic game can certainly do the trick.

All that said, I caution against diving straight into epic levels. Play can slow down a lot trying to immediately get used to everything an epic level character can do. Reaching that level naturally really helps with the grind, because the players already function like a team, everyone knows exactly how their character plays, and there simply won't be the need to pause on each turn and figure out what to do and how to do it.

 

[Xeterog]

My Campaign, which started at 1, is now at level 26. (we are playing thru the H1-E3 series from WOTC..halfway thru E2 right now).

Play did seem to bog down when we got to epic some. Fights took longer and the PC's seemed to not be terribly threatened (at least from my perspective as a DM).

Then about level 24, I blanketed reduced HP's of monsters by 25% and increased their damage by 1 or 2 dice (usually only 1die, but if a power only did 1die damage--especially at-wills--I increased it by 2dice). So far, thru about 10 encounters since the change, the fights are shorter, but more intense. The party is still winning, but they seem Threatened by the fights now.

Other than that, it runs pretty much as heroic and paragon levels.

My party:
1/2 elf Paladin of Kelmvor
1/2 elf Ranger (greatbow)
human Cleric
Human wizard
Tiefling infernal warlock
Dragonborn ranger (beastmaster)

With the radiant damage this party puts out, the multitude of Undead they seem to be fighting die quickly

 

[babinro]

I'd say epic is very fun up to around mid-epic. Everything pretty much stays par for the course and then PC's tend to get some overly ridiculous encounter powers and daily's. In my party's case, this led to some pretty boring battles because of lock down in combat. Expect every PC to have at least one stun/dominate ability, often targeting multiple enemies. Very little actually challenged the party.

From here you get into high end Epic (level 28+). Fights against some of the 'named' monsters can often prove extremely long, and somewhat boring for the PC's since monster defenses really skyrocket. Expect a lot of misses, and encounters boiling down to several rounds of at-wills.

In my experience, Epic is the least fun tier overall, but could easily be improved given enough DM modifications to the intended rules. Essentially, use more monsters, lessen the monsters uses of things like stun. Increase their damage output, decrease their HP and when probably defenses. Modify monsters so many of them have a minor basic attack in addition to normal abilities.

 

[TikkchikFenTikktikk]

I started a couple threads about epic-play in general and the WotC-published epic-tier adventures just a couple weeks ago.

http://www.enworld.org/forum/4e-discussion/276960-wizards-coasts-epic-adventures.html

http://www.enworld.org/forum/general-rpg-discussion/277050-epic-tier-high-level-gaming-you.html

 

[TikkchikFenTikktikk]

In my humble opinion--and at risk of starting a "this is how you should play D&D" flamewar--there should be very little combat in epic-tier, especially late epic-tier.

The PCs are all-but gods at that point and they should be dealing with godly issues, such as maintaining the laws of the universe, maintaining balance in the cosmos, and raping unwitting mortal females, then turning them into cows to hide their deeds from their bitchy spouses. Oops, slipped into Greek mythology there.

Anyway, I think epic tier should be almost entirely role-playing and skill challenges with very little combat.

 

[Aulirophile]

That sounds really boring. "All but Gods" in a world where there are dozens of actual Gods, and hundreds of thousands of demons, angels, devils, and various monsters serving them all of whom can be a credible threat to a standard party, and somehow the PCs are in charge of the laws of the universe? Whole planes of existence where they would be hunted down like dogs should be disregarded?

I give full credit to my DMs, but in four editions of D&D high level play has never been just RP for me. It has been truly brutal fights for my character's lives, in quests to accomplish goals fully inline with their stories. Some of which were pursued right from level one.

 

[MrMyth]

What I think is important is that there shouldn't just be random fights to fill the time. Every single fight should be significant in some way. The difficulty with this is having a reason for multiple epic fights without an extended rest between each one, and might involve either major deadlines, or simply coming up with special circumstances ("PCs are trapped in the past and can't benefit from an extended rest until they escape", was one I used).