Eric Noah's Info
Vigilance
Explorer
ShadowDenizen said:
Yeah, the revised SW game was such a failure their revising it AGAIN. What does that tell you about how it went last time for them?
And as for doing less SW rpg books, that's in favor of miniatures. See a trend here?
Maybe, but the original world of darkness line was the beginnings of the "revise, reset, resell" strategy, not the "new world of darkness".
You seem to be missing the bigger picture here. If they continue to "go the same way" with game line after game line, would you say that's a sign that it works for them financially or that it doesn't work?
That might be true for you. Past experience has shown that most gamers do in fact get the new edition when it comes out. While I think there will be some reticence... there was reluctance to adopt EVERY new edition yet gamers continue to upgrade.
Gen Con?
The only thing that is throwing me off is the fact that this isn't going to be announced at Gen Con. I think we've pretty much laid out an infallible argument that it is in development, right? Why wouldn't they announce it?
Also, Eric if you didn't think that your speculation carried any more weight around here, I've got one question for you:
What's the name of this site, and why was it developed?
As it relates t my specific gaming experience, my group (together since 1986) hasn't played D&D in almost two years. We still get together every month, and we play games like Settlers and Magic. We all now have children, nieces, and nephews, and they're showing an interest in our games. We also all have played MMORPG's for the last few years together. We had a blast on NWN and WOW. I hope that 4e will be able to play on the best of these things. As demonstated by this site' WOTC has a tremendous opportunity to capitalize on an entire generation of die-hard grognards such as us who would love nothing more than to introduce this wonderful game to a new generation of players.
The only question in my mind now, is which game will all these old grognard's play in he retirement home?
The only thing that is throwing me off is the fact that this isn't going to be announced at Gen Con. I think we've pretty much laid out an infallible argument that it is in development, right? Why wouldn't they announce it?
Also, Eric if you didn't think that your speculation carried any more weight around here, I've got one question for you:
What's the name of this site, and why was it developed?
As it relates t my specific gaming experience, my group (together since 1986) hasn't played D&D in almost two years. We still get together every month, and we play games like Settlers and Magic. We all now have children, nieces, and nephews, and they're showing an interest in our games. We also all have played MMORPG's for the last few years together. We had a blast on NWN and WOW. I hope that 4e will be able to play on the best of these things. As demonstated by this site' WOTC has a tremendous opportunity to capitalize on an entire generation of die-hard grognards such as us who would love nothing more than to introduce this wonderful game to a new generation of players.
The only question in my mind now, is which game will all these old grognard's play in he retirement home?
Clefton Twain
First Post
4e? Meh
I know I'm late to the party on this but here are a few quick thoughts.
I don't really think 4e is needed. Not for a long time. I know WotC needs to have a profitable product but I think they will alienate more D&D fans with 4e so soon than anything else. I think their time would be better spent increasing the quality of their 3e products rather than just making a whole new edition.
I can't say I'm thrilled with the prospect of a 4th edition after I've sunk lots of money into 3e, then of course repurchasing a few books for 3.5 and having some of my old 3e books simply go obsolete. I think I'm still a little bitter about the way 3e/3.5 was handled in the first place. Not to mention the fact that I have spent all this time making custom documents and references for my own benefit.
Currently I'm very happy with the current edition. I never really got tired of 2nd edition. And though it was obviously flawed, 3rd edition is much more tight. True, it's getting bloated, but I tend to simply not use said bloat and just move on.
I use minis in my game. I don't play the minis game itself but I buy a box occasionally because I like to have decent representations of what the PCs are actually fighting (we use all sorts of other "placeholders" including Homies and cut-out representations from Dungeon). I can easily *not* buy minis but, to me, they add a little flavor and sometimes make record-keeping easier. Whether they do the same for my players, I don't know, but it doesn't matter. Obviously these things are money-makers, being collectible, and I admit that many of them look really cool. I just hope they don't try to milk the minis line while neglecting everything else because the bottom could fall out at any time.
Ah well. I guess we'll have to just see what happens. I'd be a fool to think that 4e wouldn't happen at some point, but I was really just hoping it wouldn't be for quite a while yet. On a positive note, I might be able to pick and choose a few things and make them compatible with 3e...maybe WotC will finally make the 20-level spell progression.
--CT
I know I'm late to the party on this but here are a few quick thoughts.
I don't really think 4e is needed. Not for a long time. I know WotC needs to have a profitable product but I think they will alienate more D&D fans with 4e so soon than anything else. I think their time would be better spent increasing the quality of their 3e products rather than just making a whole new edition.
I can't say I'm thrilled with the prospect of a 4th edition after I've sunk lots of money into 3e, then of course repurchasing a few books for 3.5 and having some of my old 3e books simply go obsolete. I think I'm still a little bitter about the way 3e/3.5 was handled in the first place. Not to mention the fact that I have spent all this time making custom documents and references for my own benefit.
Currently I'm very happy with the current edition. I never really got tired of 2nd edition. And though it was obviously flawed, 3rd edition is much more tight. True, it's getting bloated, but I tend to simply not use said bloat and just move on.
I use minis in my game. I don't play the minis game itself but I buy a box occasionally because I like to have decent representations of what the PCs are actually fighting (we use all sorts of other "placeholders" including Homies and cut-out representations from Dungeon). I can easily *not* buy minis but, to me, they add a little flavor and sometimes make record-keeping easier. Whether they do the same for my players, I don't know, but it doesn't matter. Obviously these things are money-makers, being collectible, and I admit that many of them look really cool. I just hope they don't try to milk the minis line while neglecting everything else because the bottom could fall out at any time.
Ah well. I guess we'll have to just see what happens. I'd be a fool to think that 4e wouldn't happen at some point, but I was really just hoping it wouldn't be for quite a while yet. On a positive note, I might be able to pick and choose a few things and make them compatible with 3e...maybe WotC will finally make the 20-level spell progression.
--CT
thundershot
Adventurer
1E
2E was basically an upgrade of what 1E was already heading toward.
2.5E Skills & Powers
3E was a fresh revamp
3.5E updated a few things, most notably, the whole ECL system
4E, in theory, should be an upgrade of 3.x, rather than a whole new revamp, especially with so little time between products (compared to the others).
2E was basically an upgrade of what 1E was already heading toward.
2.5E Skills & Powers
3E was a fresh revamp
3.5E updated a few things, most notably, the whole ECL system
4E, in theory, should be an upgrade of 3.x, rather than a whole new revamp, especially with so little time between products (compared to the others).
Echohawk said:So there were a couple of "nostalgia" products (Dragonlance Classics: 15th Anniversary Edition and Return to the Keep on the Borderlands), several compilations (Wizard's Spell Compendium, Volume Four, Monstrous Compendium Annual Volume Four, Van Richten's Monster Hunter's Compendium, Volume One and Priest's Spell Compendium, Volume One), a rerelease of the basic game, and lots of adventures.
Comparing that with the release schedule from August 2005 through to July 2006 is interesting. We have a couple of nostalgia products (Expedition to Castle Ravenloft and Expedition to the Demonweb Pits), two compilations (Spell Compendium and Magic Item Compendium), a release of the basic game, and lots of adventures.
Hmmmm...
That's pretty freaky if you ask me. It seems we're all speculating a lot, so the only thing we can do is wait till Gen Con and see if the bad news is true...
JustaPlayer
First Post
I believe the "nostalgia" releases were the undisputable sign it's coming soon. When I first saw Expedition to Castle Ravenloft, my first thought was House of Strad.
3.5e is where I get off. I have more than enough 3.x material to cover 10 lifetimes of play. I also like to play with less minis.
That and the fact that great games based on d20 OGL will more than likely continue to be published just means Wizards loses my support.
3.5e is where I get off. I have more than enough 3.x material to cover 10 lifetimes of play. I also like to play with less minis.
That and the fact that great games based on d20 OGL will more than likely continue to be published just means Wizards loses my support.
EricNoah
Adventurer
You know what I hope? I hope WotC doesn't listen to our babbling too closely. Because I'm not sure "we" really know what "we" want. They should do what they think is best for the game. If they can come up with a clever way to have their cake and eat it too, more power to them. I'm sort of realizing that no matter what direction they take, a) I'm pretty satisfied with the game I have, and the scads of supplemental and third-party materials I have; and b) I will watch with great interest what they do next because I'm simply curious about it. Who knows... maybe a year or two from now I'll be playing the latest and greatest D&D with or without their hardware and having a blast.
Wulf Ratbane
Adventurer
Vigilance said:
Looking at the Games Workshop business model is instructive. EVERY edition is met with wailing and gnashing the teeth. They blithely ignore the grognard and their retail business model focuses on teens and under.
It's not a perfect analogy because the actual bulk of a player's investment is in the miniatures, and the miniatures can be used from edition to edition; but the rulebooks themselves... revise, reset, resell.
Like clockwork.
Let's benchmark the GW business model against the 4e rumors:
-New edition already in the works? Check.
-Miniatures based? Check.
-Smaller bundles of game info, packaged and sold separately (codexes)? Check.
-Outsourcing the RPG? Check.
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