[EU] So, what in EU is worth it

[Kesh]

Unlike some others, I enjoyed The Truce at Bakura. Yes, it was a bit weird for a Star Wars story, but the saving graces came from the characters and the large starship battles.

Plus,

Spoiler

I have a thing for mind-control stories.

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

However, "Balance to the Force" is very vague and ambiguous, note that fans have been debating it and theorizing for 6 years, now imagine how much the Jedi argue about it. They claimed in RotS it meant destroying the Sith.

In that sense, it did work: ressurected Palpatine never claimed to be a Sith Lord. His plans for a Dark Side theocracy were never called a Sith Empire. His heirarchy of Dark Side Adepts and such clearly broke the "Rule of Two" (Palpatine was already moving away, with the Inquisitors and the Emperor's Hands as force-using servants, but in DE he threw it right out the window). The lineage of the Sith was broken. Also, Palpatine did die eventually because of Vader. He saved Luke's life and Luke was there to strike at Palpatine. If Vader didn't interfere and throw Palpatine down the shaft, he would have killed Luke, and the Sith would still have still wiped out the Rebellion and nobody would have been there to stop them. Prophecy is a funny thing, even as Yoda said "Always in motion is the future."

From a dramatic standpoint, Vader fell and was still redeemed, sacrificing his life to save the life of his son. Luke stood up to the same temptation that Vader did and came out on top, earning his Knighthood. The EU uses Dark Empire as the trial that Luke undergoes to earn his Master status in that same vein, looking right at the heart of the Dark Side and coming out on the other side.

I know it's controversial, but as a fan who loves the EU, I saw it as a fun read that fit well. Admittedly my perception is heavily influenced by the old West End Games Dark Empire Sourcebook for the d6 RPG, which explains a lot of the backstory and greatly clarifies some things and elaborates on others.

But at the time it was written the Emperor wasn't even known to be Darth Sidious, or Darth anything for that matter. He was the Emperor and was Vader's master and a Force user. The Sith wasn't defined nearly as well as it is now. He never claimed to be a Sith Lord until Ep I when his pre-Emperor days were revealed. Darth Vader was the only one known to be a "Sith" at the time AFAIK. Were the old Republic days even done in comics back then? For all we knew at the time Dark Lord of the Sith was just a fancy title for Vader.

I don't think it jives with what we know now, and in any event I still say it defies what the authority on the SW saga says to be true and takes away from one of the best parts of the Star Wars movies. Luke didn't need to go to the heart of the Dark Side to destroy it. He already did that by throwing down his weapon and in effect facing the Dark Side with peace. I think Luke learned his lesson orbiting above Endor and didn't need to become Palpatine's apprentice or do any of that stuff.

To me some very big movie characters were lessened in that comic series, especially Luke & Vader who are my two favorite SW characters. We will never agree on this I think.

 

[Nebulous]

I just have to add that the short stories detailing IG-88 and his incarnations and then Boba Fett battling the Sarlaac are two fabulous stories that fit in wonderfully with the Star Wars universe. Alot of the other shorts aren't so noteworthy.

 

[Hypersmurf]

In fact I've liked everything of Zahn's I've read, about six non-SW novels, and plan on picking up everything else he's written.

Zahn is one of my buy-on-sight authors. I pretty much do own everything else he's written

The Blackcollar is my favourite novel. Write book 3 already!

-Hyp.

 

[qstor]

I haven't read a lot of the EU stuff, but IIRC doesn't the EU have periods with mutiple Sith Lords in a time period closer to Ep. I?


Just wondering..

thanks

Mike

 

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

I haven't read a lot of the EU stuff, but IIRC doesn't the EU have periods with mutiple Sith Lords in a time period closer to Ep. I?

Nope. The 'last' Sith Lords died out 1,000 years prior to tPM at the Battle of Ruusan when the whole 'Rule of Two' was created.

 

[amethal]

I'd like to make a somewhat half hearted defence of the New Jedi Order series, on the grounds that it wasn't that bad.

On the downside :-

There are far too many books (probably about 20?), and some of them are much better than others (the RA Salvatore one is probably the worst of the bunch, in my opinion, which is a shame given it is book 1).

The plot of each book generally has the good guys winning the battle, yet after a dozen or more such victories they continue to lose the war, and victory seems as far off as ever. The series could have ended after 5 books, or 500.

Far too much of it is "arms race in space", with both sides pushing their technology and tactics to the limits in an attempt to win the war, which to me ain't Star Wars or space opera. There are also plenty of atrocities, which are very depressing.

In its favour :-

Seeing how the New Republic and the (new) Jedi Order coped with a galactic war was interesting.

In particular, the New Republic's response to a crisis had me longing for the good old days of the Empire - and helps explain how people in the Old Republic could have seen Palpitaine as the answer to their prayers.

The series also tried to provide information on the nature of the force, and put forward the idea that the light/dark side split might be more perceived than real, which I found interesting (although it is probably heresy!)

There are also some real gems dotted throughout the books. I don't want to give any spoilers, but the good was just about worth wading through all the bad for. I'd recommend borrowing these books from a friend or a library, or picking them up second hand somewhere, and at least giving them a chance.

 

[Kunimatyu]

A lot really depends on how discriminating you want to be. The cream of the crop is probably Zahn's Thrawn Trilogy and his two-book series (Specter of the Past, Vision of the Future). Honestly, Vision of the Future ended things in such a satisfying way that I never read another EU SW book again.

The Rogue Squadron/Wraith Squadron books are also a lot of fun. I actually prefer the Wraith books, just because they're even more removed from the main SW characters. Really, there's only so much you can do with Luke, Han, and Leia after a while.

Everything else is worse, though the degree of worse varies considerably. Stackpole's "I, Jedi" is an unintentionally hilarious (and decent) book that rewrites a lot of the stupidity found in Kevin J. Anderson's Jedi Academy trilogy. Actually, if you're going to delve into the morass that is the non-Zahn EU, you're better off avoiding authors than titles. If it's by Kevin J. Anderson or Barbara Hambly, consider yourself warned.

 

[Welverin]

should have done this sooner, hope you still see it

Zahn is one of my buy-on-sight authors. I pretty much do own everything else he's written

The Blackcollar is my favourite novel. Write book 3 already!

So, besides Blackcollar any other recommendations I should put at the front of the list?

I have the Conqueror's Trilogy, The Icarus Hunt, Angelmass, and Manta's Gift, as well as all of his SW novels.

 

[Orius]

Even then, only some of the details of the Death Star's construction. It's still perfectly feasible that Tarkin had his little secret Maw facility working on a lot of the technical problems the Geonosians didn't work out or places where the Empire thought they could improve upon the design. The basic idea that the Death Star's operating philosophy was the Tarkin Doctrine, to rule by fear of force rather than the use of force by presenting such a powerful weapon that no defense is possible is still valid. Building it in the Horuz system, over Despayre is still valid, and the secret Maw installation in the Kessel system is still valid as a place for some early prototype work and R&D on the design.

As I stated in one of the several Episode III threads, it can work from a certain point of view. I think if we assume that the Empire couldn't figure out how to build the superlaser that was the whole point of the Death Star, then the Maw installation starts to make more sense. Also, the Tarkin Doctrine may have gone along with Palpatine's plans too. WE're not told where the Death Star is being built at the end of sith either.

Also, note that the Kaminoan clones did take some quite som time to grow and mature, just like Spaarti grown clones (without Yslimiri help), the movies never implied that you could just pop out clone armies with the push of a button. Spaarti technology may be a different implementation than Kaminoan cloning, but the basic ideas don't contradict.

On the subject of cloning, Mara Jade's decision to finally go over to the side of New Repubic because she doesn't want to see another round of the Clone Wars devastate the galaxy takes on added meaning with the prequels. After all, the clones in the Clone Wars were the original stormtroopers, and Thrawn uses clones to boost his military capabilities against the New Republic. Maybe it's not what Zahn had originally intended, but Episodes II and III if anything strengthen it.

In general, I think the prequels were quite kind to the EU in not contradicting anything major. Even the controversial Dark Empire series was supported by Palpatine's declaration that he knew a way to cheat death (I know some people hate DE, but right there in the movie he says he knows how to cheat death, and the believed-dead villain returning is a staple of pulp adventure, which Star Wars tries to be). Only Boba Fett's backstory (of which there were already several conflicting stories) was really ignoring the EU.

Agreed on Palpatine.

And as for Boba Fett, there is so much crap out there about him, it's hard to know what's what. I'm glad Lucas restored him to a badass through Jango in episode II.