Evaluate my Sorceror's Spell List

Rashak Mani

First Post
Every time I have to chose some new spells for my Sorceror I feel like I might have made some bad choices in the past... I always check ENworld of course for spell tips and lists. Well I know ask ye honorable board members to evaluate, criticize and/or opiniate on my spell list:

-> 3.0 Campaign Forgotten SpiderQueen - 14th lvl Sor - PrC Elemental Savant


1st Grease / Shield / MM / Identify / Reduce

2nd Glitterdust / MirrorImage / Invisib. / False Life / Resist Elem.

3rd. Dispel Magic / Haste / Fly / Fireball

4th Stoneskin / Impr.Invis. / Exploding Cascade / PolyOther

5th Ghost Form / Wall of Force / Energy Buffer

6th Mass Haste / Summon VI

7th (Will pick Limited Wish... any better ?)


Meta Feats: Empower, Extend and Energy Substit.

I am about to go to 14th lvl... I possibly could change a 5th or lower spell (yep a 3.5 concession in our 3.0 adventure.) Suggestions ?
 
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Wippit Guud said:
How do you justify being an elemental savant, with just one elemental spell?

Two... Exploding Cascade :) Threeish... Summon VI can summon Large Fire elementals too. I used to have a 2nd lvl fire spell but exchanged it.

I compensate by using Fireball and Exploding Cascade very frequently... empowered many times. :D
 

Rashak Mani said:
1st Grease / Shield / MM / Identify / Reduce
I would dump reduce. However, truth be told, there are not that many good low, level spells that would be useful to you at this point.

2nd Glitterdust / MirrorImage / Invisib. / False Life / Resist Elem.
OK.

3rd. Dispel Magic / Haste / Fly / Fireball
OK, though dispel magic will become less and less powerful with the +10 caster level cap.

4th Stoneskin / Impr.Invis. / Exploding Cascade / PolyOther
You may wish to replace stoneskin with enervation.

5th Ghost Form / Wall of Force / Energy Buffer
IMO, energy buffer is a rather inferior spell. If you get hit by an elemental effect that does piddling damage (burning hands for instance), then it will make the spell far less useful. Good alternative choices are hold monster, dominate person, or teleport.

6th Mass Haste / Summon VI
Having both haste and mass haste is kind of redundant. I would dump the latter and replace it with project image, greater dispelling, or disintegrate.

7th (Will pick Limited Wish... any better ?)
Nope, that's the best choice for a sorcerer.
 

Rashak Mani said:
Every time I have to chose some new spells for my Sorceror I feel like I might have made some bad choices in the past... I always check ENworld of course for spell tips and lists. Well I know ask ye honorable board members to evaluate, criticize and/or opiniate on my spell list:

-> 3.0 Campaign Forgotten SpiderQueen - 14th lvl Sor - PrC Elemental Savant

Anything in red, below, I think was a bad choice. Anythign in green is what I suggest picking as replacements, with a note as to source when it's not from the PHB.
1st Grease / Shield / MM / Identify / Reduce ... Burnign Hands, Ice Dagger (Magic of Faerun)
2nd Glitterdust / MirrorImage / Invisib. / False Life / Resist Elem., Aganazzar's Scorcher (FRCS), Melf's Acid Arrow
3rd. Dispel Magic / Haste / Fly / Fireball
4th Stoneskin / Impr.Invis. / Exploding Cascade / PolyOther, Thunderlance (FRCS)
5th Ghost Form / Wall of Force / Energy Buffer
6th Mass Haste / Summon VI
7th (Will pick Limited Wish... any better ?) (try Forcecage instead ...)


Meta Feats: Empower, Extend and Energy Substit.

I am about to go to 14th lvl... I possibly could change a 5th or lower spell (yep a 3.5 concession in our 3.0 adventure.) Suggestions ?

Several ... see above. ^_^
 

Are you playing 3.0 or 3.5? Looks like 3.0 so I'll go with that. **Edit, I need to learn to read**

1st - Dump reduce, get protection from evil (or good as the case may be)

3rd - Dump Dispel magic, get Greater Dispel as a 6th, I like major image, very handy spell to have in combat and out.

4- Lotta people saying dump stoneskin, I say keep it. It has saved my skin and that of my party members on numerous occasions. I've also found wall of fire very useful. Not gonna kill the BBEG but messes with the small troops in very pleasing and effective ways. They either dont walk thorugh it, dividing your enemies, or they do and take some nice damage to help your fighters cleave them.

5th - Hold Monster rocks, must have if you ask me. I'm also a big fan of dominate, espeically if you're playign 3.0. Makes it easy to infiltrate the enemy base when half his men have been working for you for the last week.

6th - Monster Summoning always has a short value for a sorcerer. I would replace it with something more useful like Disentegrate or chain lighting. These are both great spells that can be empowered when you have the ability. Well you can empower Disentegrate if you are using 3.5 anyway. This was one of my toughest choices when I made my sorcerer as there are some really nice 6th level spells.

7th - Definitely get Limited Wish. Maybe not as your first spell though.

I would also strongly recommend either shadow conjuration or shadow evocation. Those really increase a sorcerers versatility. My 2 cents, enjoy.
 
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First... why did so many put REDUCE spell down ? Its great for opening doors or Rocks blocking the way. There aren't that many 1st lvl spells anyway... but Reduce seemed good.

Second: Identify. I kind of agree its not as good... but since we're in the underdark and without means of buying scrolls... not sure about it.

I must mention that with 23 Charisma I get an awful lot of bonus spells. So I tend to avoid going into melee. Comments on the suggestion done:


- Thunderlance (FRCS) - Seems very combat oriented and cannot be handed over to someone else ? Every single combat I haven't been able to launch enough spells... if I start going into melee it won't do me much good. That is my view at least... Sorcerors are machine gunners not hand to hand :) Or am I judging this spell badly ?

- Burning Hands does a paltyr 5d4 damage... not worth the time to cast.
- Ice Knife... cant cast Ice spells. Weak damage too.

- Aganazeers... too limited in size and damage (5d8)
- Melf Acid... takes too much time to act maybe. Will think about it.

- Prot from Evil. Good choice... though I have a Horn of Goodness which gives once a day Magic Circle vs Evil.

- Hold Monster and Dominate... will think about it... I would have to dump some 5th lvl spell. Ghost Form is my primary defense. Wall of Force is Great.

Someone said drop ENERGY BUFFER, but its what will stop Ice spells from instantenously killing me when I go full elemental in 15th lvl. I think its a great 5th lvl spell. Avoids the cleric from curing me whenever fireballs and bolts start flying. (This character died before from energy attacks).

Stoneskin is a very good spell... it has saved our Paladin more than a few times. He is a half dragon (ECL) and has bad luck rolling HPs.

Limited Wish seems very flexible... though expensive. Any recommended uses ?
 

My take on this:

A. Keep in mind that the criteria for being on a sorceror's spell list are "will I cast it lots of times?" and "Can I just use scrolls instead?"

Rashak Mani said:
Every time I have to chose some new spells for my Sorceror I feel like I might have made some bad choices in the past... I always check ENworld of course for spell tips and lists. Well I know ask ye honorable board members to evaluate, criticize and/or opiniate on my spell list:

-> 3.0 Campaign Forgotten SpiderQueen - 14th lvl Sor - PrC Elemental Savant

1st Grease / Shield / MM / Identify / Reduce

If you have the non-combat uses of reduce in mind, it's a reasonable spell. OTOH, Identify is the kind of spell, you should get scrolls of. It costs 100gp to cast anyway; going to 125/casting isn't a really big deal (and if you want higher level scrolls to identify multiple items at once, it's only 25 gp/extra item). If you've a monk in the party, consider replacing this with Mage Armor; Otherwise Feather Fall, True Strike (if you pick up ranged touch attacks), are probably more useful.

2nd Glitterdust / MirrorImage / Invisib. / False Life / Resist Elem.

Resist Elements is a pretty wussy spell in 3.0 If you were playing 3.5, it would be a good choice, but I'd replace it with Aganazzer's scorcher, one of the buff spells, See Invis, rope trick, levitate, or something else. Since you have Imp Invis, you might want to ditch the normal one too unless you've a PC who uses it for extended scouting.

3rd. Dispel Magic / Haste / Fly / Fireball

All good spells. Dispel Magic is probably getting a bit long in the tooth, but if you pick up Chain Spell, you can chain it for a targetted dispel on each of your enemies and a few of their prominent items too. And that would more than be a match for an area Greater Dispelling.

Haste, however, is somewhat redundant since you have Mass Haste. You might want to pick up something like Icy Burst (sometimes it's good to have an alternate energy type and the larger area of effect is nice too), Displacement, Protection From Elements, etc.

4th Stoneskin / Impr.Invis. / Exploding Cascade / PolyOther

I don't know whether or not your party pays for the material components but Stoneskin has always seemed too expensive to be a really good "cast every day" spell. If you use it that way, more power to you; otherwise I'd replace it with Enervation, Confusion, or one of the other good 4th level spells. (Heck, you could afford to blow one on Dim Door to get out of grapples/bypass walls, doors, etc at this level). If you're playing Citadel of the Spider Queen and most of your party doesn't have darkvision, you might also consider Mass Darvision. (Mass Resist Elements isn't a bad choice either if your cleric doesn't carry it).

5th Ghost Form / Wall of Force / Energy Buffer

Don't listen to the people who tell you Energy Buffer isn't good. It's one of the best spells out there. Even if your enemies know about it and open up their attack with an acid arrow or something else weak to counteract it's effect, that's one spell that could have been an empowered fireball or a Otiluke's Freezing Sphere. Casting a 5th level spell (on the previous day typically since it's 24 hr duration) to reduce your foes' options like that is worth it. (Also, IIRC, you can cast it on your allies too if you've extra slots at the end of the day--not shabby at all).

6th Mass Haste / Summon VI

Actually, I think this is a pretty good set of choices. One summon spell is often good for a sorceror since they are very flexible and enable you to effect creatures with high SR. Also, Celestial Dire Bears are a very good buy for a 6th level spell.

7th (Will pick Limited Wish... any better ?)

Limited Wish is good. It's not too expensive (though you won't want to cast it every day) and it gives you unparalleled flexibility. But there are other good spells. Energy Immunity (Tome and Blood) is quite handy.

Meta Feats: Empower, Extend and Energy Substit.

I am about to go to 14th lvl... I possibly could change a 5th or lower spell (yep a 3.5 concession in our 3.0 adventure.) Suggestions ?
 

Elder-Basilisk said:
My take on this:

If you've a monk in the party, consider replacing this with Mage Armor; Otherwise Feather Fall, True Strike (if you pick up ranged touch attacks), are probably more useful.

Resist Elements is a pretty wussy spell in 3.0 If you were playing 3.5, it would be a good choice, but I'd replace it with Aganazzer's scorcher, one of the buff spells, See Invis, rope trick, levitate, or something else. Since you have Imp Invis, you might want to ditch the normal one too unless you've a PC who uses it for extended scouting.

Haste, however, is somewhat redundant since you have Mass Haste. You might want to pick up something like Icy Burst (sometimes it's good to have an alternate energy type and the larger area of effect is nice too), Displacement, Protection From Elements, etc.

I don't know whether or not your party pays for the material components but Stoneskin has always seemed too expensive to be a really good "cast every day" spell. If you use it that way, more power to you; otherwise I'd replace it with Enervation, Confusion, or one of the other good 4th level spells.

Don't listen to the people who tell you Energy Buffer isn't good. It's one of the best spells out there.

Limited Wish is good. It's not too expensive (though you won't want to cast it every day) and it gives you unparalleled flexibility. But there are other good spells. Energy Immunity (Tome and Blood) is quite handy.

- We have a druid... your idea on Mage Armor I might take. (I have a +5 bracer myself).
- I kept Resist if we knew about some specific energy threat. 10 per round per PC is quite a lot of damage avoided.
- Aganazers is too weak.
- Stoneskin is very expensive... but we spent some gold... now I have 12 charges worth. I cast it before or during combat mostly on the Paladin. Saves his life everytime. The stoneskin has been almost fully hit away in several occasions.
- Energy Buffer is personal only :( Its a Life Insurance spell. I sometimes cast extended version on a slow day when I still have 6th lvl slots. (48 hrs!)
- Icy Burst... no cold spells thanks.. I'm almost a Fire Elemental.
- See invisib is good... but i have 6 scrolls and will buy more. We didn't have any Identify scrolls...

If I do drop Haste 3rd lvl... what spell would you suggest ?

Thanks for the opinions... overall do you think my spells are balanced between offense, defense and multi purpose ? I feel I might be too defensive...
 
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