Evasive Reflexes: what do you think about it?

[wmasters]

In fact, the more I think about this, the sillier it seems. A wizard arms with a spiked chain he's not proficient in.

Now, instead of getting charged, he can 5ft away when the charge goes off, because he threatens despite being incompetent, to make the charge illegal (by going behind cover, or making the charger need to turn), so the charge ends. Then on his turn he can move to a convientient position to repeat it, and cast.

I hope I'm missing something. Otherwise, I think no, I wouldn't allow it.

 

[Infiniti2000]

Maybe, and only maybe, in the case of a charge. And then that happens once. The opponent then moves up to you normally. Three things depend on this though:

1. You rule that you cannot charge to the "side" of an opponent (and thus you basically disallow rideby attack). This presents a whole host of additional questions, but let's leave it at that. Even in this case, it's only useful against a charge, not against normal movement.

2. Remember that you cannot 5ft-step past a corner, so you would need to actually be in the intersection, so to speak.

3. Another argued point is whether the mage can cast while wielding a two-handed weapon. If you allow shifting grips and changing hands as unlimited free actions, then okay. Some of us do not, and the rules do not specify the action type required.

 

[wmasters]

Not usually, if the opponent has enough movement. You only provoke one AoO due to movement, so after your first 5ft-step, the opponent can just keep moving towards you, provoking no more AoO's.

Ah, that was the rule I was forgetting. For some reason it's one of the few rules that I can't get to stick in my mind. That makes me feel a bit better about the feat!

 

[Hypersmurf]

Maybe, and only maybe, in the case of a charge. And then that happens once.

It could get interesting with Hold The Line, though.

Opponent charges into an area you threaten, provoking an AoO; you instead take a 5' step back (which means the opponent is now outside the area you threaten). He continues to charge, entering an area you threaten, provoking an AoO; you instead take a 5' step back.

Repeat until he runs out of movement... or, if you move on diagonals, until his charge becomes illegal.

An interesting effect of allowing multiple 5' steps is that you don't even need Combat Reflexes to benefit from the feat multiple times in one round...

-Hyp.

 

[Egres]

Example Supreme Cleave (Complete Warrior, Frenzied Berserker and Knight Protector class ability): "[The character] can take a 5-foot step between attacks when using the Cleave or Great Cleave feat." The frenzied berserker description also points out that it is still limited to one such adjustment.

While in this feat there's no such limit.

 

[Knight Otu]

While in this feat there's no such limit.

So, is the knight protector ability of the same name more powerful then, allowing 5-foot steps betwen each (Great) Cleave? When using the Net and Trident style feat, can I make two 5-foot steps?

 

[Vanye]

While in this feat there's no such limit.

That has been provided in the web preview

Granted, WOTC has been real good at providing full text of feats etc on previews, but that doesn't mean they always will.

Plus, if we go with the general rule that "the rules are as stated [in this case, a single 5ft step/round] unless specifically overruled" then there is no problem.

 

[KarinsDad]

I read this like Infiniti2000.

However, this feat does have some limitations:

1) In order to get the 5 foot step, you have to have not moved during your previous turn at all. This is fairly limiting, but it has the advantage of knowing when you can or cannot use it.

2) If used with Karmic Strike, it's not that big of a deal. First, you take a -4 to your AC to use Karmic Strike for an entire round. Second, it does not really prevent a full round attack. It prevents attacks after the first successful one. So, if the first attack misses and the second attack hits, it will prevent any potential third or later attacks if they exist. But, it does this at the expense of giving up the Karmic Strike AoO and taking a -4 penalty to AC. So, even if the opponent did have a third attack, you gave up an AoO at normal bonuses in order for the opponent to lose an attack at -6 (in this example). Pros and Cons. In any case, the only way to use this with Karmic Strike is to get hit first and to be at -4 AC.

3) You can only use this feat once per round. So if one opponent gives you an AoO and you 5 foot step away, You cannot do it again. If regardless of whether you have it with Karmic Strike, if you have used it once this round already, a second opponent can still hit you and if he is within 5 feet of you, he could get a full round attack against you.

4) Using this in place of Combat Reflexes is not that big of a deal either. If you go the Karmic Strike route, chances are that you already have Combat Reflexes. If you do not go that route, this feat is kind of weak since you do not control when oppoents give you AoOs, they do. So, the ability to move a little when you did not move on your previous turn IF an opponent gives you an AoO is fairly few and far between. By itself (i.e. without Karmic Strike), you'd be lucky to use Evasive Reflexes once per battle on average unless you have another way to force opponents to provoke AoOs (just like Combat Reflexes). My wife's Paladin has Combat Reflexes and she almost never uses it. I'll mention Karmic Strike to her.


All in all, this is a fun feat. But, it is not overly powerful. It is not even overly powerful with Karmic Strike since Karmic Strike is the powerful feat, this just allows you to use Karmic Strike offensively or defensively at the cost of four feats: Combat Expertise, Dodge, Evasive Reflexes, and Karmic Strike.

 

[RigaMortus2]

If this feat did allow multiple 5-foot steps, it seems like it might synergies well with the Scout's skirmish ability

Also, wasn't there another feat or PrC ability (probably 3.0) that allowed a 10-foot step? Or changed a 5-foot step into a 10-foot step?

 

[KarinsDad]

If this feat did allow multiple 5-foot steps, it seems like it might synergies well with the Scout's skirmish ability

I suddenly realized today that if it does not allow multiple 5-foot steps (which the wording appears to imply since it does not state that it is an exception to the normal 5-foot rules), then it has extremely limited utility. If an opponent provokes an AoO with his first attack of a full round attack (e.g. a disarm without improved disarm), then retreating 5 feet does stop the disarm, but the opponent can then often (if he did not take a 5 foot step yet) take a 5 foot step and continue with his full round attacks.

So, it can stop an attack which would normally provoke an AoO (e.g. disarm, grapple, etc.).

If the AoO was caused by movement, typically the opponent who caused it will often have 5 more feet he can move, so it doesn't help much here. If the AoO was caused by a threatened opponent casting a spell, then again the opponent can often still move in with a 5 foot step (or even a normal move) and use the spell (e.g. if it is a touch spell).

If done with Karmic Strike, it does not even stop the attack that caused the AoO (Karmic Strike AoOs are simultaneous with the attack that caused it) and the opponent can still often take a 5 foot step to continue his full round attacks.

All in all, Evasive Reflexes is pretty darn weak and has extremely limited utility if it does not allow multiple 5 foot steps and even then, it requires Combat Reflexes (and Karmic Strike) if multiple 5 foot steps are allowed (and even that does not do much except possibly stop some additional full round attacks beyond two successful ones if used with Karmic Strike). Without Karmic Strike, this is a really weak feat and even with it, it is still pretty lame.