Hussar
Legend
((Heh, can I get IBTL on my own thread
))
Ok, hang on a second and put down that keyboard. Let me explain.
There's been a pretty persistent meme going around that 4e is a failure. That might be true, it might not. Honestly, I don't care. It doesn't matter. However, what is the issue is that people are using that to brush aside any features of 4e that 4e fans might want to see in 5e.
For example, someone might like 4e healing surges and speak positively about bringing them into 5e. The response often is, "Well, 4e failed, therefore anything 4e shouldn't be in 5e because we don't want 5e to fail". There's two problems with this response.
The first is, it shuts down conversation. People get to stop discussion without actually having to analyze anything. You don't have to show that one version of the mechanics is better or worse. All you have to do is play the "fail" card and there's nothing more that can really be said. And thus, the conversation dives down the rabbit hole of whether or not 4e actually was a failure, something which no one can prove.
The second problem is that it ignores the history of the game. Every single edition of D&D has been replaced by a newer edition. Every one. The time between editions might be different, but, the existence of new editions is without question. And the reason for a new edition is also the same, every time:
The previous edition wasn't making enough money anymore.
And that's the long and the short of it. 4e didn't come about because people hated 3e. 4e came out because 3e wasn't making enough money. 3e came out because 2e wasn't making enough money (something of an understatement there). Same with 2e and same with 1e. The reason for a new edition is exactly the same, every single time.
Every single edition in the end, failed. None of them are "evergreen" products. None of them managed to stay in print.
Trying to brush off conversation by playing the "fail" card is pointless. It adds nothing to the conversation, only serves to annoy the crap out of people and doesn't actually move anything forward in any meaningful way. If you don't like a mechanic, that's fine. Show me why your mechanic works better. Not just for you, but for everyone. Show me why Basic rules Racial Classes are the greatest thing ever and we should all use them.
Don't just close off conversation by stating, "well, 4e failed." because, guess what, your favourite edition?
It failed.

Ok, hang on a second and put down that keyboard. Let me explain.
There's been a pretty persistent meme going around that 4e is a failure. That might be true, it might not. Honestly, I don't care. It doesn't matter. However, what is the issue is that people are using that to brush aside any features of 4e that 4e fans might want to see in 5e.
For example, someone might like 4e healing surges and speak positively about bringing them into 5e. The response often is, "Well, 4e failed, therefore anything 4e shouldn't be in 5e because we don't want 5e to fail". There's two problems with this response.
The first is, it shuts down conversation. People get to stop discussion without actually having to analyze anything. You don't have to show that one version of the mechanics is better or worse. All you have to do is play the "fail" card and there's nothing more that can really be said. And thus, the conversation dives down the rabbit hole of whether or not 4e actually was a failure, something which no one can prove.
The second problem is that it ignores the history of the game. Every single edition of D&D has been replaced by a newer edition. Every one. The time between editions might be different, but, the existence of new editions is without question. And the reason for a new edition is also the same, every time:
The previous edition wasn't making enough money anymore.
And that's the long and the short of it. 4e didn't come about because people hated 3e. 4e came out because 3e wasn't making enough money. 3e came out because 2e wasn't making enough money (something of an understatement there). Same with 2e and same with 1e. The reason for a new edition is exactly the same, every single time.
Every single edition in the end, failed. None of them are "evergreen" products. None of them managed to stay in print.
Trying to brush off conversation by playing the "fail" card is pointless. It adds nothing to the conversation, only serves to annoy the crap out of people and doesn't actually move anything forward in any meaningful way. If you don't like a mechanic, that's fine. Show me why your mechanic works better. Not just for you, but for everyone. Show me why Basic rules Racial Classes are the greatest thing ever and we should all use them.
Don't just close off conversation by stating, "well, 4e failed." because, guess what, your favourite edition?
It failed.