D&D 5E Everyone Should Play Custom Lineage by Default

MoonSong

Rules-lawyering drama queen but not a munchkin
Personally, I don't have big issues with custom lineage. But I'm not a fan of normalizing the powergaming method of maximizing your primary score no matter what. Which I think it's the sentiment behind this idea. You don't need to race to 20 in your primary score to have a meaningful character, let alone have fun with your character. What's stopping people from playing rogue dwarves, elven barbarians and half orc bards? Nothing but the race to 20. You don't need that 20, and if you went from fiction first, you wouldn't care if you have a 20 or not.
 

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Levistus's_Leviathan

5e Freelancer
I'm not suggesting that players should only play custom lineage. I'm suggesting that encouraging them to play custom lineage by default would have some cool advantages. If a player strongly prefers to play a lizardfolk with natural armor, a standard lightfoot halfling, or a cold+heights acclimated goliath that would be 100% cool--doubly so if aarakocra flight or triton underwater breathing is core to the character.
I will have the main races be the default, with the Custom Lineage being used only for characters don't fit in anywhere else. If it works for you the other way, that's great, but I'm not going to do that.
 

Istbor

Dances with Gnolls
Hiya!

Syndrome: "...and when everybody is a Super? ... ... No one will be!"

Pretty much sums up my thoughts on the matter.

I hope. ;)

^_^

Paul L. Ming
But... they are all player characters... aren't they meant to stick out and be exceptional? That they chose to be adventurers and through their exceptional whatever, managed to actually survive and keep truckin' while other more mundane specimens failed or quick after a minor expedition?

Maybe we are playing vastly different games of D&D. Every party I have run for were all super in some way, but they almost always felt uniquie to one another. And powerful compared to Ran Doe the farmer.

That is not to say I agree with the premise. I have yet to really look over these options. Just that this statement really stuck out as an odd thing to say about D&D PCs.
 

jayoungr

Legend
Supporter
Well, it's kinda hard to escape things like initiative, weird character progression, hit point bloat and all that jazz.

You can try, to some extent, sure, but if you'll try to run in it a truly fiction-first style, you'll be fighting uphill battle on every turn.
I don't find that true. I think it's just a matter of how much things like initiative bug you. If they don't, then they just recede into the background, and nothing feels like a fight at all.

(shrug)

And for the record, I've played lots of PbtA and even more story-based indie games. I have met very few that I didn't like.
 

squibbles

Adventurer
I completely agree most "options" can be expressed through role-playing rather than mechanics (more explicitly features really), which is why I feel such options aren't needed in the game and Tasha's is pretty much useless IMO.
Listen, you can do what you want as a house rule, but this is literally reducing race to rubber masks if you can cherry pick any racial feat you want while having the abilities of a vhuman.
Apologies if I'm misrepresenting your viewpoints guys, but I'm generally confused which direction the criticism of custom lineages is coming from. 6ENow!, you seem to be stating that PCs can be expressed through role-playing, lineage options are unnecessary, and therefore lineage options are bad. Remathilis, you seem to be stating that PCs need to be expressed through mechanics, that lineage options undermine this (or that this specific set of lineage options do), and therefore lineage options are bad. Did you guys reach the same conclusion--lineage options are bad--but start from opposite premises? Not to be antagonistic, its just that this topic very easily turns muddled with several very different points of view ending up conflated by virtue of arguing for the same position.

I love custom lineages. They're mechanically balanced and they open up options for players both mechanically (now you can be an Elf or a Dwarf and have a feat at 1st level) and also narratively.
So, I'm arguing that having custom lineages be the default would work well. But I do not think they are well-balanced; they are power creep. Custom lineage is the same as a variant human--which was already considered very strong--except with an option to have darkvision, and the potential to sart with an 18 primary ability score using the standard array.

But... there's a big upside to defaulting to the power-creepiest option; it makes it harder for players to create an uber character using non-standard options, i.e. as @pming noted "when everybody is a Super no one will be."

I would use this analogy. The great chef that can create a great set menu is the one who gets the highest praise. The great chef that has a menu that looks like Cheesecake Factory has a job and the title of chef. When limitations exist, creativity is not suppressed, but rather encouraged. When no limitations exist, creativity (again) is not suppressed, but rarely encouraged.
Exactly, and that's a feature, not a bug. We just had a very long thread about people playing "wierd races" and that being kindof disconcerting (a point of view which I am not endorsing, only recognizing). I think that if you give players the freedom to play anything--and be mechanically above average doing it--they'll play bland generic humans and elves because, to most players, their PCs race doesn't really matter; they showed up to roll dice and make monty python jokes.

If they have a really cool idea for, as I said in the OP, a purple eight-eyed anthropomorphic psychic badger, awesome!, they can play it--there's no explicit barrier to creativity.

But they are less likely to play Tabaxi, Hobgoblins, and Kenku by happenstance of Ability score bonuses.

Thus, breaches of campaign setting verisimilitude are more likely to be deliberate choices, rather than mechanical accidents.

[my post is] a rebuke to those that keep using the tired old canard that somehow having more limitations is somehow superior, and the smugness that goes along with it. It's tiresome.
I'm in general agreement with your larger points in the thread but, just to clarify what seems like a misunderstanding between you and some of the other posters. Having limitations is good for creativity. Yes, as you mentioned, there is lovely poetry written in free verse. But poetry, as a medium, benefits from having lots of rules. Forcing someone to write a 5/7/5 haiku instead of any old sentence with roughly 17 syllables is going to help them produce a more beautiful work.

My suggestion to give players fewer default PC creation limitations will make them less creative on average.

I think that's a good thing.

I definitely feel that by 6E, race is going to be just like background. There's some defined archetypes, but rules-wise it's a mutable thing where you just pick several options for the mechanical benefit. Appearance and such will be up to player-DM negotiation as to what best works for the setting.
Sounds good to me. Though I think there's a place for rules that distinguish PCs with major physical differences, like having wings, or 6 arms, or being unusually large or small--to maintain verisimilitude.
 

Weiley31

Legend
Your custom lineage is an Elf if you say it is
Elf: Dad, I'm an elf right?
Elf Dad: Well yes son, you were born and raised by elven parents and in an elven community.
Elf: So If I'm an elf, why does the Sleep spell put me to sleep and I'm easily charmed?

Elf Dad: Uh...well ya see son motioning to the mom to quickly bail him out of this and hide the Tolkien poster in the back that is an excellent question. Ya see, when you gracefully mov-

Elf: I'm a klutz dad. Also my ears aren't pointy. And I wasn't adopted. And no magic was involved for Polymorphing/Shapechanging.

Elf Dad panicking: I....well....ya see son.

Elf: Also, you do realize I'm a girl right?.

Elf Dad: It was a wizard. A wizard did it.

Elf Daughter: What kind of stupid donkey logic is that?


Somewhere else.
WoTC: I feel like somebody is talking bout me.
Dragonborn that has no scales and is a Gnome but is actually a Burrito and not a Halfling: Naaaa it's just you bro.
 

No, they would not. If you do not select halfling or human as your race, you are not halfling or human--you are "something else". Biology defines you, not your preferences and such.
If I select custom lineage (Halfling) and am Small, was born to halfling parents, and raised in halfling society, but aren't particularly lucky and instead am a great Cook (Gourmand feat) and crafty (+2 Int instead of the standard Dex bonus), I'm a halfling.
 

Elf: Dad, I'm an elf right?
Elf Dad: Well yes son, you were born and raised by elven parents and in an elven community.
Elf: So If I'm an elf, why does the Sleep spell put me to sleep and I'm easily charmed?

If Custom lineage exists, that Elf would not be unique. An outlier for sure, but not unique. There would be other elves that also lack the sleep and charm immunity.

If you must have a 'biological' reason for it maybe some elves are losing that immunity due to prolonged exposure away from the Feywild, or a non elven ancestor, or a genetic quirk.
 

Mistwell

Crusty Old Meatwad (he/him)
If Custom lineage exists, that Elf would not be unique. An outlier for sure, but not unique. There would be other elves that also lack the sleep and charm immunity.

If you must have a 'biological' reason for it maybe some elves are losing that immunity due to prolonged exposure away from the Feywild, or a non elven ancestor, or a genetic quirk.
Wait wait wait. Now you're saying a player's choice to use custom lineage inherently alters the DMs campaign setting choices for races in that world? No. You can claim anyone can and should be able to choose this, but that doesn't alter the campaign setting to force there to be more of this things in that game world. You're unique. If you cannot logically exist without it being unique, then you're seeing our issue with it I think.

I spelled out for you earlier how the racial feat rules specify a player's handbook racial option and you're choosing a Tasha's racial option which means the feat cannot apply mechanically. You didn't respond. That, combined with an example as to why it's wonky from a role playing perspective, should be compelling enough to at least suggest there might be an issue worth considering regarding racial feats.
 

Remathilis

Legend
Apologies if I'm misrepresenting your viewpoints guys, but I'm generally confused which direction the criticism of custom lineages is coming from. 6ENow!, you seem to be stating that PCs can be expressed through role-playing, lineage options are unnecessary, and therefore lineage options are bad. Remathilis, you seem to be stating that PCs need to be expressed through mechanics, that lineage options undermine this (or that this specific set of lineage options do), and therefore lineage options are bad. Did you guys reach the same conclusion--lineage options are bad--but start from opposite premises? Not to be antagonistic, its just that this topic very easily turns muddled with several very different points of view ending up conflated by virtue of arguing for the same position.

My point is simple: a custom lineage is a unique being that looks like, but isn't, one of the normal races. It's a special snowflake, a limited edition, a mutant, or similar, but it ain't truly "an elf".

I say this on two fronts: the first is I feel the original races deserve something unique to them. There is a handful of things that check what race you are: feats, magic items, and some now retconned subclasses. I'd like to leave those options for people who select the default package. I'm not completely comfortable with basically allowing vhumans to pick any racial feat they want while ignoring race-defining features like flight or water breathing. And second: I want custom lineages to be for things that the current racial system doesn't yet cover: a fey changeling raised in the feywild, the scion of a demigod, or the seventh son of a seventh son who is somehow not quite like his brothers. I don't like "Imma elf but I get a sweet feat and 18 Dex instead of lame proficiencies and corner case resistances."
 

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