Evil casters using [good] spells ?

[Venport]

I don't like aligment in Game... I can't stand that my paladin Cast detect evil and kills it all the time... i don't think that aligment should be such a powerful think in this game... i like what ebberon tired to do where there are few aligment restrictions however i wish there was an easy way to elimate aligment from the game all togehter (but there isnt)

 

[dcollins]

Thanks folks
so can this be avoided by making scrolls or a wand of Align weapon, and hand it to the UMD rogue?

Not by a caster prohibited from those same spells. They would not be allowed to trigger the spell necessary for creating those items.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Buying them, yes, making them, no. You can't make a scroll of a [Good] spell if you can't cast that [Good] spell.

Align Weapon doesn't take on a subtype until you make the choice as to how you're aligning the weapon.

Unlike a potion, where the creator makes all choices at creation time, scrolls or wands don't have that limitation.

You don't scribe a scroll of Summon Monster I: Celestial Badger. You just scribe a scroll of Summon Monster I. An evil cleric can scribe a Summon Monster I spell, and then a good cleric can read it, summoning a Celestial Badger and giving the spell the [Good] descriptor.

Likewise, you don't scribe a scroll of Align Weapon: Good. An evil cleric can scribe a scroll of Align Weapon, and then a rogue can use UMD to activate it, choosing to align a weapon Good and giving the spell the [Good] descriptor.

An evil cleric could not, however, brew Oil of Align Weapon: Good... only Evil, Lawful, or Chaotic (assuming a Neutral Evil cleric and deity).

Arguably, an evil cleric could scribe a scroll of Align Weapon, and then use cross-class UMD to activate it for good alignment. In which case, he could use that to provide the prerequisite for brewing a potion of Align Weapon: Good...

-Hyp.

 

[dcollins]

Correction: Hyp's right, of course. Align weapon is one of those 3.5 spells I'm not familiar with.

 

[Endur]

(I have evil PCs in hell, trying to use Align weapon [good] and summoning lantern archerons)

I don't allow Summon spells to summon good outsiders into Hell. I'm also not sure I would allow a good spell to be cast in Hell.

 

[Infiniti2000]

Well, per the Manual of the Planes and probably other sources, I think the worst it needs is a trivial spellcraft check, like DC 15 + spell level.

Also, thanks to Hyp for pointing that out. I only use Align Weapon as a goody two shoes cleric, so the idea of casting the same spell for Evil purposes didn't even cross my mind.

 

[Starglim]

edit: what Hypersmurf said

 

[Evilhalfling]

Hyp got my point for the second post, ie when making a wand, variables are choosen when it is used not when it is created. I was unsure of this point, and could not find it addressed.
(sitation anyone? for or against? )

Thus a wand of align weapon can be used to align to any alignment, but a since align weapon [good] is not avalible to evil clerics (this point was answered by dcollins' rules quote)
the cleric could not use a spell trigger for this effect.


with UMD any alignment could be chosen.

 

[irdeggman]

Arguably, an evil cleric could scribe a scroll of Align Weapon, and then use cross-class UMD to activate it for good alignment. In which case, he could use that to provide the prerequisite for brewing a potion of Align Weapon: Good...

-Hyp.

IMO he could not bypass his restriction in much the same way that a specialist wizard can't (the specialist wizard restirctions applies to pretty muchany type of spellaslong as its from tan opposed school {well that is how I read it, it doesspecifically apply to scrolls and wands though} nor can a druid wear/use prescripted equipment without giving up his druidness (albeit for a 24 hour period).
A paladin who violates his code of conduct or better yet the text for an ex-cleric most closely applies. {The PHB text ties into the god's alignment while the SRD doesn't}.

But it is not specifically clear in this, I'm putting together "similar" restrictions to make my case.

 

[Hypersmurf]

IMO he could not bypass his restriction in much the same way that a specialist wizard can't (the specialist wizard restirctions applies to pretty muchany type of spellaslong as its from tan opposed school {well that is how I read it, it doesspecifically apply to scrolls and wands though}...

A specialist wizard doesn't have the spells on his wizard class list; that's the reason he can't activate a scroll or wand.

A multiclassed wizard/sorcerer doesn't have the spells on his wizard class list, but he does have them on his sorcerer class list, and thus can activate a scroll or a wand. From memory, it was Tome and Blood that suggested a specialist wizard might take one level in sorcerer for exactly this purpose.

Since UMD allows you to temporarily consider a spell to be on your class list, it would allow a specialist wizard to bypass the restriction in the same way.

-Hyp.