Evil casters using [good] spells ?

[Hypersmurf]

But if he were to cast a spell with the chaotic alignment descriptor he would be acting in ways contrary to his gods alignment thus should be reprehanded by his god for doing so. When the cleric/wizard decides to cast one of his wizard spells his god wont just ignore him because for that fraction of time he's a 'wizard'.

If he's a Lawful Good cleric of a Neutral Good deity, the Chaotic spell is not opposed or contrary to his god's alignment. But he still can't cast it.

Sure sounds like a code of conduct to me since it is "moral or ethical" in nature.

Let's take an item from Lost Empires of Faerûn:

Aoxar's Helm: Aoxar, the great dwarf hero of Ammarindar, crafted this open-faced, metal helmet to identify compatriots in dire need on the battlefield so that he could come to their aid. It also enabled him to pass along the dying wishes of the fallen to their families.

The wearer of Aoxar's helm can use deathwatch at will and speak with dead once per day.

Faint necromancy; CL 5th; Craft Wondrous Item; deathwatch,speak with dead; Price 15,400 gp; Weight 3 lb.

Would a cleric of, say a Good Deity of Healing become an ex-cleric if he used this helm so he could come to the aid of compatriots in dire need on the battlefield?

-Hyp.

 

[irdeggman]

If he's a Lawful Good cleric of a Neutral Good deity, the Chaotic spell is not opposed or contrary to his god's alignment. But he still can't cast it.

Right because the clerics code of conduct is more strict here. Both the deity and cleric's personal codes of conduct apply.

Let's take an item from Lost Empires of Faerûn:

Aoxar's Helm: Aoxar, the great dwarf hero of Ammarindar, crafted this open-faced, metal helmet to identify compatriots in dire need on the battlefield so that he could come to their aid. It also enabled him to pass along the dying wishes of the fallen to their families.

The wearer of Aoxar's helm can use deathwatch at will and speak with dead once per day.

Faint necromancy; CL 5th; Craft Wondrous Item; deathwatch,speak with dead; Price 15,400 gp; Weight 3 lb.

Would a cleric of, say a Good Deity of Healing become an ex-cleric if he used this helm so he could come to the aid of compatriots in dire need on the battlefield?

-Hyp.

Yes.

Could a paladin use the item without becoming an ex-paladin/

Same argument for both characters applies.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Yes.

Could a paladin use the item without becoming an ex-paladin?

I don't see why not. Unless you're using the Book of Vile Darkness, making use of a spell that has the [Evil] descriptor is not an evil act. The paladin is using the helm to do good, and he's not breaking his code of conduct to do it.

How about an evil cleric donning a Mantle of Faith or Celestial Armor? Or hitting someone with a holy weapon? Do they take a negative level while holding the weapon, but become an ex-cleric straight away?

What if he drinks a Potion of Protection from Evil? What if he drinks it without knowing what it is?

-Hyp.

 

[Particle_Man]

I would say that a cleric is unable to use [evil] spells, and a paladin would lose his paladin-hood for using [evil] spells.

As for evil people casting [good] spells, it is possible that they will become good, but it would take a LOT of [good] spells, and no evil actions done besides. The spells actually would change reality, including the spellcaster's personality.

 

[Hypersmurf]

As for evil people casting [good] spells, it is possible that they will become good, but it would take a LOT of [good] spells, and no evil actions done besides.

So summoning Celestial Badgers to murder innocent children sort of balances out, good/evil-wise?

-Hyp.

 

[kjenks]

We were fighting a Death Slaad, and the rest of the party looked to my Chaotic Good elven cleric for an Align Weapon spell. "Sorry," I had to say, "we chaotic clerics can't cast [Lawful] spells. Just hit it harder, guys."

Strangely enough, the rules for a multiclass cleric/wizard also seem to preclude this character from casting an oppositely-aligned spell with his wizard spells, too. This is a more extreme restriction than the specialist wizard school restriction.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Strangely enough, the rules for a multiclass cleric/wizard also seem to preclude this character from casting an oppositely-aligned spell with his wizard spells, too. This is a more extreme restriction than the specialist wizard school restriction.

How do you consider the cleric to be 'more precluded' than the wizard?

"Spells of the prohibited school or schools are not available to the wizard, and she can’t even cast such spells from scrolls or fire them from wands."

"A cleric can’t cast spells of an alignment opposed to his own or his deity’s (if he has one)."

What makes you say 'more extreme'?

-Hyp.

 

[Particle_Man]

So summoning Celestial Badgers to murder innocent children sort of balances out, good/evil-wise?

-Hyp.

In that particular case, the evil of getting agents to murder innocent children would earn you 100 "evil points" and the casting of a [good] spell would earn you 5 "good points" so you would net a total of 95 "evil points". Yes this is my house rule.

And a paladin ain't allowed to willingly do acts that accrue any "evil points" and remain a paladin.