Evil casters using [good] spells ?

[Infiniti2000]

The specialist wizard isn't a good analogy, but irdeggman, your point is still well taken. It's also why Hyp wrote "arguably." The arguing part of it of course being alignment problems. A cleric that knowingly violates his alignment . . . yada yada yada. I don't want to bring up that debate obviously, but that's where the DM adjudication on alignments comes into play. The cleric could do it by the RAW, but whether their would be repercussions is up to the DM.

 

[schporto]

Just noticed an oddity....
Clerics are specifically prohibited from casting any opposingly aligned spells. Paladins and Blackgaruds do not have this restriction. Now there are not any opposed spells on either of their lists, but still, its kind of odd that the restriction wouldn't be there.
-cpd

 

[Voadam]

Are there any problems with this?
I can see problems with good people using [evil] spells, and no good PC has tried it.
but does evil hold to the same line? can/will dark gods grant [good] spells?

(I have evil PCs in hell, trying to use Align weapon [good] and summoning lantern archerons)
are these actually good acts?

Detect good will detect the [good] descriptor spells the evil characters cast as well as the good lantern archons. That's the only explicit rules for if they are good acts. They could command the lantern achons to do evil things and they would still detect as a good spell and good creature though.

 

[Someone]

IIRC, evil clerics can't cast [Good] spells, but other evil casters have no such restrictions.

Druids have it also.

 

[Hypersmurf]

A cleric that knowingly violates his alignment . . . yada yada yada. I don't want to bring up that debate obviously, but that's where the DM adjudication on alignments comes into play. The cleric could do it by the RAW, but whether their would be repercussions is up to the DM.

Yeah - I don't see a reason a Lawful Good Clr/Wiz couldn't cast Protection from Good as a wizard spell.

-Hyp.

 

[irdeggman]

Yeah - I don't see a reason a Lawful Good Clr/Wiz couldn't cast Protection from Good as a wizard spell.

-Hyp.

For the same reason if a paladin violates his code of conduct (even if he is a multiclass character) he still suffers the same penalty/ramifications. Or a druid loses spells and abilities if he wears prohibited armor (even if he was wearing like a fighter like say a fighter/druid).

Codes of conduct supercede classes because they are behavior and not something granted by a class. So unless the character has multiple personalities. . . .


From the SRD {and PHB}

Ex-Clerics
A cleric who grossly violates the code of conduct required by his god {generally bay acting in ways opposed to the god’s alignment or purposes} loses all spells and class features, except for armor and shield proficiencies and proficiency with simple weapons. He cannot thereafter gain levels as a cleric of that god until he atones (see the atonement spell description).


Code of Conduct: A paladin must be of lawful good alignment and loses all class abilities if she ever willingly commits an evil act.
Additionally, a paladin’s code requires that she respect legitimate authority, act with honor (not lying, not cheating, not using poison, and so forth), help those in need (provided they do not use the help for evil or chaotic ends), and punish those who harm or threaten innocents.


A druid who wears prohibited armor or carries a prohibited shield is unable to cast druid spells or use any of her supernatural or spell-like class abilities while doing so and for 24 hours thereafter.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Codes of conduct supercede classes because they are behavior and not something granted by a class. So unless the character has multiple personalities. . . .

But the inability to cast Chaotic spells is not part of the Code of Conduct for a Lawful cleric. It's not 'is forbidden to' or 'may not' or 'should not'; it's simply something he can't do.

A multiclassed druid/bard who wears forbidden armor loses the ability to cast druid spells, or use supernatural or spell-like class abilities. Countersong is a supernatural class ability; is this lost for 24 hours? Or does the loss only apply to supernatural class abilities provided by the druid class?

A Lawful cleric cannot cast Chaotic spells... but not because his god says it would be naughty, so he elects not to; he actually can't do it. He has no access to those spells. But like the specialist wizard, if he gains access to those spells that are unavailable to him via another class, there's nothing preventing him casting them as a member of that other class.

-Hyp.

 

[Zandel]

About those lantern archons.......

If an evil character somehow managed to cast a Good version of summon Monster or similar spell it would summon up.... Thats right a big fat O, 0 hd 0 bab 0 atks 0 saves 0 stats.

The good god in charge of the archons whould say no way!

 

[jigokusabre]

Good spells, evil casters

Is there a rules quote for that? I've never seen one.

The only thing I've read on the subject, from the book of exhalted deeds, and a quote"

Good spells don't have any redemptive influence on those who cast them, for better or worse. An evil wizard who dabbles in a few good spells, most likely to help him acheive selfish ends, does not usually abandon his evil ways because he's been purified by the touch of the holy. On the other hand, there are certain spells whose sanctified nature demands a concrete, physical sacrifice from the caster (See sanctified magic in chapter). No character can draw from such holy magic without being changed for the better as a result.

Oddly enough, though, the sancitifed spells that have the power to redeem the evil... can't be cast by evil creatures. (D'oh!) Again quoting:

Evil characters cannot cast sanctified spells, including ones cast from magic items.

I'm pretty sure it says somewhere that casting evil spells does drag a character down, even though casting good spells does not elevate one's ethical standing... but I can't think of where.

 

[Silveras]

[/i]I'm pretty sure it says somewhere that casting evil spells does drag a character down, even though casting good spells does not elevate one's ethical standing... but I can't think of where.

The Book of Vile Darkness, pages 7-9, Evil Actions, Casting Evil Spells.
Monte Cook described a broader-than-core optional view of what was an evil act, and included the casting of spells with the Evil descriptor.