Evil PCs?

[Michael Silverbane]

I've run games with evil characters and I've played an evil character, both in all evil groups and in mixed groups. There have been a few disasters, and a few really fabulous games. In all, I'd say that the results have been pretty similar to other types of games... Though, I can understand why evil characters would be unacceptable for some groups or even for certain campaigns in a group that has no problems with evil characters in general.

Whether or not to allow evil characters is a decision that each gaming group should make for itself, depending upon the desires of the group and the needs of the campaign.

Later
silver

 

[Odhanan]

How do you feel about allowing the players to play evil characters? I've done it before, but not often, and I've only done it when the entire party is evil/neutral. I want to hear other DMs' stories about evil parties, or about regular parties with 1+ evil characters in them. For example, have you ever had an encounter between party members as the "good guys" find a bad guy in their midst?

That happened a lot when we were playing first edition. The whole "assassin is among us" trope was part of 1e's experience for us, more often than not, that is. Same as "one of us is a thief and doesn't appear to be" (I remember a game where a good friend of mine pretended to be a gnome cleric, all virtuous and morally superior. He was named the party's keeper of all treasures found in the adventures, and everyone fervently believed him to be LG. I knew for a fact, since I wasn't playing at the table, that the character was in fact a thief. The other players never found out. LOL).

I have nothing against players choosing to play evil characters, as long as they know what they're getting themselves into, agree as to the potential consequences of their actions (i.e. getting killed or worse by other PCs), and don't come to me DM afterwards to bitch about it. Of course, this means I'll give a fair warning to the player before the game begins.

 

[Belbarid]

How do you feel about allowing the players to play evil characters? I've done it before, but not often, and I've only done it when the entire party is evil/neutral. I want to hear other DMs' stories about evil parties, or about regular parties with 1+ evil characters in them. For example, have you ever had an encounter between party members as the "good guys" find a bad guy in their midst?

A few thoughts:

I played a Neutral Evil character in a basically good party. He was an utterly selfish, amoral sob who didn't care one whit about anybody but himself. He was also smart enough to not show it. There were a pair of fighters, one human and one minotaur, who could end him in a heartbeat if necessary. Fortunately for him, the human fighter was susceptible to greed, and we concocted a great plan to blackmail the local duke. Long story, but one of my better ones.

After that little incident (we got caught, big time), the fighter and I broke off and the DM formed an evil campaign based in the same world and timeline as the good one, with the two working at odds to each other. The (now VERY) evil fighter and I conflicted at every turn, trying to take over leadership of the group. Frankly, it was great fun all the way 'round.

BUT, there are lines we didn't cross. We never killed another PC. We never put another player in a position where the game wasn't fun anymore. Our *characters* were evil, not us.

Secondly, in the Kalamar game I'm in now, one of the players is Lawful Evil. Loyal to the group, generally speaking (The phrase "I'll kill you last" comes up a lot in place of "Thanks"), but a real cold-hearted type who enjoys dishing out pain. It causes some interesting moments. A paladin NPC was told that he needed us more than we needed him, and that this guy is part of the group. Cope or leave. The ever-popular argument-bait of "Does that Paladin lose his Paladin status" wasn't an issue, though. He blew a save against a wicked trap and was reduced to a puddle of goo. Needless to say, the Evil character wasn't exactly heartbroken.

This guy will kill, or provoke a fight with, darn near anything. In the Expidition to Ravenloft (SO cool, btw) we had to tell him in no uncertain terms to keep his mouth shut when the Lord of Barovia was around.

On the other hand, there was a situation where we, on this guy's say-so, lured a citizen to a well somewhere in town, where an undead began to drown the guy. I faced down our cleric and told him that if this guy says it's necessary and to not interfere, then we back his play because he backs ours. That's how we work.

Basically, much like every other kind of party or campaign idea, it can work. It depends on the players.

 

[Belbarid]

Agree 100%. Its the only way to avoid player vs. player friction.

The only way to prevent player vs. player friction is to remember that it's a game that you're trying to enjoy. A badly-played Paladin zealot with the backing of an inexperienced DM can be just as bad.

 

[Umbran]

It is not an issue I've had to deal with much.

My players generally want to be the heroes. Big Damn Heroes, if they can manage it. None of them has ever asked to play evil.

I do inform prospective new players of this, and that while I don't technically disallow evil PCs, that I don't think it'd be a good idea, and that if they do choose to go that way, I will in no way, shape, or form protect them from the other PCs. If you want to play evil in a group of heroes, you are asking for it, and the odds are very good you'll get it.

 

[paradox42]

My players have asked to play evil on several occasions. In two cases I allowed it, both in campaigns running an all- (or at least mostly-) Evil party.

The first such party ended in a party implosion when conflicts between the LE party members and the CE party members escalated into PC-on-PC violence; the group split in two right down the middle with three PCs on each side (though admittedly the wolf-man PC didn't take sides until the LE monk killed the puppy animal companion of the just-deceased CE fighter). Three characters survived the fight, and we all agreed that there was no way to continue the campaign from that point. The players all enjoyed it, even the ending, but it left me as the DM quite unsatisfied since my planned plotlines were now in ruins.

The second occasion, I made it clear in advance that I didn't want a repeat of the party implosion, so the players were very careful to construct PCs who were more compatible with each other- they had reasons to work as a team beyond temporary mutual advantage, and once they had a few missions under their belt (they started out working for a world-spanning evil organization run by a Great Wyrm dragon) their sense of team spirit overrode any other conflicts that arose. This party is still going now, with characters at 17th and 18th level, and for the last several months I've actually been running them through a slightly-modified Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil with spectacular results. The modifications I've made are that, since the module was designed for characters lower in level, I've upped the power quotient of the enemy- the Triad members, for example, are all Epic level in the one I'm running. It's basically, for the PCs, been a case of stopping the insanity of the cult- since it would ruin their carefully-laid plans for personal power and Total Domination (destroying the world tends to do that). Sure they have no concern for the well-being of the world's inhabitants- but interference with their own power they Just Can't Have.

With these experiences, I must concur with the above posters who have said it depends on player maturity- and with any Evil PC you have to give the character a reason to work with the others instead of being a lone wolf. With this second campaign under my belt, I might even consider allowing an Evil PC in an otherwise-Good party in the future, again with the caveat that there have to be some things put in place to prevent the Evil PC from going PvP.

In other words, Evil can be fun if done correctly. PvP is not.

 

[WayneLigon]

I won't do it, and rarely will I play in games where PC's can be evil. I've never seen it work out well, ever.

 

[Ghostwind]

The biggest problem with evil PCs is that most view being evil as a license to be a serial killer. Simply put, there are few tools in the core books that give guidance to players who want to intelligently play an evil character. That was the primary reason why Kevin and myself wrote Darkwalkers: The Evil Within*, so that people could see that there are options when playing evil PCs and campaigns. It has essentially become an evil player's handbook.

I don't believe that it's a bad idea to play evil or run an evil campaign as long as the players are mature enough to handle it. And therein lies the real key. Maturity.


*(Yes, that was a shameless plug.)

 

[Crothian]

I don't believe that it's a bad idea to play evil or run an evil campaign as long as the players are mature enough to handle it. And therein lies the real key. Maturity.

I also think communication is very important. I played in an evil campaign and well it really wasn't. I thought we were going to be evil, but in reality we were just like any other adventureing group working for an evil god. Different people have a different idea about what is evil and that really needs to be hashed out before the game begins.

 

[interwyrm]

I played in two evil campaigns.

The first was short lived, because we got frustrated with the GM. We had big megalomaniac plans. He had this twist he wanted to use where we would die, get resurrected and be indebted to someone. So we died in stupid ways. For example, I was playing a tiefling fighter. I wanted to go to a neighboring nation and help them attack the one we were currently inhabiting. First, when I get there, not before I leave, he says that I don't speak their language. Ok, so they take me to prison. I sit there for like... a week, then the guard chief comes with some archers and they shoot me twice. I pull out the two arrows, point them at the guards, and speak in abyssal. I roll an intimidate check of like.... 40. They hesitate for a moment, and then shoot me dead.

Yay fun.

The second one was a lot more fun. The GM is actually... evil in real life I think. In any case, we were supposed to be the chosen of nerull. It turned out we were on Nerull's own plane, but for some reason the church of St. Cuthbert was in total control. We basically plotted to bring them down. The difficulty was evading the scry/buff/teleport/kill squads. There was a device also that pretty much allowed only the good guys to teleport. The campaign eventually fell apart to player reasons, not pc reasons. (People just stopped coming).

It was fun though.


I think evil can work as long as everyone focuses on a longterm goal, LE or NE, or are directed to kill specific targets by the megalomaniacs (CE).