Excerpt: Paragon paths (merged)

[LordArchaon]

I must say it's the first time I get to bad conclusions about something from the excerpts.
First thing I don't like is the requirement. Being so directly class-tied, what stopped the developers to just include the related paragon paths in the main classes as normal progression after 11th level? Really sad.
Then there's the progression itself. I and I think everyone else, would have liked a benefit every level, instead of 3 at first level and then loose progression. Ok, we're not really going to see dead levels thanks to the underlying class progression, but I don't think it's optimal design.
THERE'S A COMPLETE LACK OF OPTIONS: Why didn't they separate the paragon path powers from the features, giving the player the ability to choose each related level which power to take? Was it too difficult, or it took too much space? It would have doubled the page-space took by each paragon path, yes, but what do you think? What would have we preferred?
Plus, they could have had at least some paragon feats (say, one feat tree) specifically tied to each paragon path.

About the paragon multiclassing option, I'm not so happy with it either. First of all, a developer who anticipated an alternative to paragon paths, said it was sub-optimal. I so hope he referred to outdated info, but I so think he was referring to this.
Then, I thought paragon paths were MEANT to multiclass better, at least some of them. The assassin for example, could require rogue with at least some fighter training. That way it could give more flavor to powers.

Oh well... Maybe I'll change idea when I'll see them printed with everything else.

 

[Lizard]

Just a quick note -- the seeming inability to 'mix&match' paragon paths will probably cure a lot of the munchkin builds out there. About the only obvious avenue for exploits I see is if multiclass 'dipping' produces unexpected synergies.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

We got a long list of paragon paths. Every single one of them was class-specific. The excerpt was not described as "class-specific paragon paths" but just "paragon paths."

The logical conclusion is that paragon paths are class-specific now.

At least the most likely logical conclusion.

I would have liked seeing some class/role/power source-spanning paragon paths*. Maybe at a later time?

*) The Warlord path is definitely something that allows him to do some "defending", but that's not the same as a path available both for Warlord and Fighter, for example.

 

[Cadfan]

Random thoughts.

1. A wind can flay someone. This is not an uncommon metaphor.

2. You "have" to take a paragon path in the same sense that you "have" to take 4th level after 3rd. My suspicion is that each class will have at least one relatively generic paragon path that "feels" an awful lot like continuing to level solely in your original class. Look at what we've got so far. Honestly, does taking Kensai make your fighter less fightery? It gives you a bonus to attack and damage, and an action point ability that makes your dice more reliable. That's about as fightery as you can get.

3. Warpriest is almost a fighter/cleric multiclass in itself. Also, Warpriest Strategy is fun. I love powers that ever so gently put their fingers on the scales of the game's internal balance.

4. Does the Wisdom prereq in Sly Hunter suggest that the archery build option for rangers will use wisdom as a secondary stat? Same question re: fighters and the spear and ax feats.

5. Does Lasting Frost only apply to cold damage dealt by powers? I know we're only seeing the short previews, but that would suggest that while you can deal cold damage with Arcane Riposte, you can't inflict cold vulnerability.

6. Its becoming more and more likely that two weapon fighting is something you get from specific powers, and that these powers are the property of the ranger. I'm ok with that, but here's my pet peeve- all the character art of characters holding two weapons. Presumably these are not all rangers. More art discipline! I'm filing this with all the characters drawn in Tome of Battle wielding two weapons even though none of the maneuvers available to the drawn character were two weapon oriented, or worse, all the characters in Tome of Battle with ranged weapons in which they were not proficient. Stop that!

 

[Lizard]

We got a long list of paragon paths. Every single one of them was class-specific. The excerpt was not described as "class-specific paragon paths" but just "paragon paths."

The logical conclusion is that paragon paths are class-specific now.

With 24 paths (as per Miko) and 2 builds/class (implied by what we've seen), I suspect we'll see two class-specific paths and 8 'hybrid' paths.

 

[Lacyon]

4. Does the Wisdom prereq in Sly Hunter suggest that the archery build option for rangers will use wisdom as a secondary stat? Same question re: fighters and the spear and ax feats.

Wisdom being the basis for Perception, this would make a lot of sense.

 

[Frostmarrow]

6. Its becoming more and more likely that two weapon fighting is something you get from specific powers, and that these powers are the property of the ranger. I'm ok with that, but here's my pet peeve- all the character art of characters holding two weapons. Presumably these are not all rangers. More art discipline! I'm filing this with all the characters drawn in Tome of Battle wielding two weapons even though none of the maneuvers available to the drawn character were two weapon oriented, or worse, all the characters in Tome of Battle with ranged weapons in which they were not proficient. Stop that!

Art discipline? I'm not bothered at all. If the thief carries a dagger in one hand and a bag in the other I will assume he carries loot in the bag and attacks with the dagger. If the dwarven fighter carries a hammer and an axe I will assume she keeps the axe handy for ranged encounters.

Still, it's your pet-peeve and as such it is pretty good.

 

[Klaus]

Much to like here.

 

[Dausuul]

After some more reading of the paths presented... my reaction is mostly "meh." They look like 3.X prestige classes translated into 4E. Nothing seems particularly innovative about them. I was hoping paragon paths would have a different emphasis in terms of character abilities--more "hero of the kingdom" and less "bigger badder dungeon-crawler."

Well, guess it's time to start dreaming up my own set of paragon paths. I certainly won't forbid my players to take the ones in the book, but if the rest of the paths are similar to what we've seen here, I suspect I'll want to offer some more interesting possibilities.

 

[small pumpkin man]

We got a long list of paragon paths. Every single one of them was class-specific. The excerpt was not described as "class-specific paragon paths" but just "paragon paths."

The logical conclusion is that paragon paths are class-specific now.

I'm going to assume 16 class paths and 8 race paths.