Exhaustion

[jasper]

EXHAUSTED [CONDITION] While you are subjected to the Exhausted Condition (known in older books as Exhaustion), you experience the following effects: Levels of Exhaustion. This Condition is cumulative. Each time you receive it, you gain 1 level of exhaustion. You die if your exhaustion level exceeds 10.
d20 Rolls Affected. When you make a d20 Test, you subtract your exhaustion level from the d20 roll.

Spell Save DCs Affected. Subtract your exhaustion level from the Spell save DC of any Spell you cast.

Ending the Condition. Finishing a Long Rest removes 1 of your levels of exhaustion. When your exhaustion level reaches 0, you are no longer Exhausted.

 

[jasper]

Okay I was losing the exhaustion comments in the mist of others.
I think it should only go up to 6 like it does now. It should include the Slowed Condition
Some Monsters should give exhaustion like the Banshee Wail DC 14 CON save or gain 2 levels of exhaustion or 1 level on a save.

 

[Charlaquin]

I hate it. What was wrong with old exhaustion?

 

[Horwath]

Pie in the Sky 6E

Delete the Wizard? I'm trying to get a movement started. The Cleric goes first, AFAIC.

www.enworld.org

called it.

 

[the Jester]

I think this is a terrible change to a great existing condition. It's overly simplified, doesn't actually model being exhausted very well, especially compared to the existing rules, and is no longer scary.

 

[Horwath]

I think this is a terrible change to a great existing condition. It's overly simplified, doesn't actually model being exhausted very well, especially compared to the existing rules, and is no longer scary.

it is scary and it models it pretty well.

you are weaker all across the board by little every level.

there is no binary switch for some things(disadvantage/movement) on not on others.

Edit: I still believe that it need -1 AC per level, to effect HPs in a way.

speed penalty could be -5ft per two levels only, if we are going for 10 levels of it.

 

[TwoSix]

I like the change quite a bit. Easier to implement and remember at the table, and granular enough to be used as currency for physical actions, if needed. And getting to 4 or 5 exhaustion is plenty punishing.

 

[rules.mechanic]

Agreed, it's a huge improvement. It has a much smoother progression and it's meaningful: every level of exhaustion is like getting a -2 on all your ability scores. It makes exhaustion much easier to use as a mechanic. Dropping to 0HP, maybe failed saves, and maybe even as a another source of Heroic Inspiration at a cost.

 

[Sacrosanct]

As I mentioned earlier, I don't like it. It was a rule that made players pay attention to the exploration pillar. And if it's supposed be a pillar that important rather than hand-waved away, then why neuter the one thing that made it important? With the existing rule, PCs paid attention and made decisions around it. With only a -1 penalty? It's hardly much of an impact any longer. Not only will PCs not balk at getting a level of exhaustion, they won't mind too much to get two or three levels before worrying about it too much.

 

[TwoSix]

As I mentioned earlier, I don't like it. It was a rule that made players pay attention to the exploration pillar. And if it's supposed be a pillar that important rather than hand-waved away, then why neuter the one thing that made it important? With the existing rule, PCs paid attention and made decisions around it. With only a -1 penalty? It's hardly much of an impact any longer. Not only will PCs not balk at getting a level of exhaustion, they won't mind too much to get two or three levels before worrying about it too much.

To my mind, the problem with old exhaustion was that players simply didn't choose it. There was no trade-off. No one ever chose to take exhaustion, it was simply a penalty imposed by an unavoidable situation.

At -1 or -2, a player will make that choice sometimes if the tradeoff is worth it, even though they won't be happy about it. And getting it up to -4 or -5 is legitimately painful and dangerous.

 

[Horwath]

As I mentioned earlier, I don't like it. It was a rule that made players pay attention to the exploration pillar. And if it's supposed be a pillar that important rather than hand-waved away, then why neuter the one thing that made it important? With the existing rule, PCs paid attention and made decisions around it. With only a -1 penalty? It's hardly much of an impact any longer. Not only will PCs not balk at getting a level of exhaustion, they won't mind too much to get two or three levels before worrying about it too much.

It was unbalanced towards various classes.

IF you were some dumb fighter with 4 skills total or a spellcaster, you would not care for exhaustion level 1.

If you were Scout Rogue or similar heavy skill build, you might just got to sleep as you got hammered by 1 level of exhaustion.

this affects all characters almost the same.

 

[Lojaan]

I like it

 

[Lojaan]

I hate it. What was wrong with old exhaustion?

Everyone hated it and no one used it?

 

[Charlaquin]

Everyone hated it and no one used it?

That certainly wasn’t my experience. Quite the opposite in fact.

 

[Lojaan]

As I mentioned earlier, I don't like it. It was a rule that made players pay attention to the exploration pillar. And if it's supposed be a pillar that important rather than hand-waved away, then why neuter the one thing that made it important? With the existing rule, PCs paid attention and made decisions around it. With only a -1 penalty? It's hardly much of an impact any longer. Not only will PCs not balk at getting a level of exhaustion, they won't mind too much to get two or three levels before worrying about it too much.

Looks like you are getting 'exploration' mixed up with 'travel'. They are very different things.

Old exhaustion was too much of a hindrance so there was never a choice. It was always bad. With this version, you gamble. You take one or two levels thinking it'll be ok and you are gambling on your ability to get rests in later to clear it (you may not get the opportunity). When the penalty hits -3 you are in real trouble.

Also with just a -1 penalty, it allows DMs to hit players with exhaustion a lot more as a warning without crippling the party.

But that is just my opinion. I think this version will get used a lot. The previous one I never saw in play.

 

[Lojaan]

That certainly wasn’t my experience. Quite the opposite in fact.

Your experience may be very much in the minority. Or mine may be. I guess we'll have to wait and see the survey results.

 

[Charlaquin]

Your experience may be very much in the minority. Or mine may be. I guess we'll have to wait and see the survey results.

What specifically about it did you dislike that this change addresses?

 

[Lojaan]

What specifically about it did you dislike that this change addresses?

It was too punishing too quickly, and too difficult to remove. It very quickly became "I guess we have to stop doing anything and just do nothing before the game can start being fun again. Great."

 

[Composer99]

It's worth noting that, barring the need to make a spellcasting ability check for dispel magic or counterspell, exhaustion was not as punishing for dedicated casters as it was for melee types.

The new model actually affects them right from the outset by cutting down on saving throw DCs.

I do think adding the slowed condition somewhere in there would make sense. Probably about halfway.

 

[Bill Zebub]

Not only will PCs not balk at getting a level of exhaustion, they won't mind too much to get two or three levels before worrying about it too much.

The same people who would rather not play than have a 15 in their primary stat? Hmmm.