Exhaustion
- Thread starter jasper
- Start date
Micah Sweet
Level Up & OSR Enthusiast
how are you going to get to 4 or 5? This is seriously weak sauce. They should have taken a cue from Level Up's Fatigue and Strife rules.
TwoSix
Unserious gamer
Well, we have no idea what rules are being implemented in terms of exploration or survival procedures. Without that, we have little guidance as to how much exhaustion will accumulate in a standard exploration scenario.
Micah Sweet
Level Up & OSR Enthusiast
Given the lack of exploration-based abilities in the new ranger, we might not be getting an exploration pillar at all mechanically.
FitzTheRuke
Legend
Funny you should mention that. I've been toying with a houserule ofr LU's Fatigue & Strife that would have them both going to 10 before you're "Doomed" and had a "kinder" progression - just so I could give it out more often without my players flipping the table.
This does a similar thing, so I can totally understand why they're testing it.
TwoSix
Unserious gamer
Sure, but that isn't related to the quality of the exhaustion rule, is it? If they don't properly support a new implementation of a rule, that doesn't mean the rule is flawed.
FitzTheRuke
Legend
I put a "laugh" on that, but I honestly don't know if I should laugh... or cry.
Horwath
Hero
this.
always have to check.
we only remember the 1st one with disadvantage to ability checks.
MNblockhead
A Title Much Cooler Than Anything on the Old Site
I like it. Read it one time and as a DM I'll be able to run it without ever having to look up the rule. Also, the extra granularity lets more things affect exhaustion.
clearstream
(He, Him)
EDIT - perhaps you are right. Rechecking I see it hits your save DCs.
Notwithstanding that I like the speed hit of the original.
Easy. Have a sidebar in the PHB next to death saves that replaces the default wacksmole healing enabling mechanic with 3.x style* death at minus ten with bleeding out and damage beyond zero imposes a exhaustion point per point.
Having it in the PHB is important because 5.5 can't continue with almost every option making pcs more powerful in the PHB and the DMG containing the ones players will fight being made somehow weaker. The DMG can contain guidance about using that sidebar.
*yes I know earlier editions had something similar as an option somewhere but I can't remember what if any differences it had.
Bill Zebub
“It’s probably Matt Mercer’s fault.”
If they don’t add an official rule that going unconscious gives you a level of exhaustion, I will absolutely be house-ruling that.
One of my top wishes for 2024 is that dropping to zero becomes something players are more afraid of.
One of my top wishes for 2024 is that dropping to zero becomes something players are more afraid of.
Micah Sweet
Level Up & OSR Enthusiast
Do you see any indication WotC would do such a thing? Players like the whack-a-mole healing. WotC wants players to get what they want. They seem to me unconcerned about the consequences.
It is not incumbent on WotC to put special rules in special places just so DMs can avoid "feeling bad" about telling their players what rules they are choosing to use in their campaign.
If (generic) you are a DM and you want to run your game with less whac-a-mole healing and you have a special system you want to use to do so... then step up and tell your players that's what you're doing. They'll either go along with it, choose not to play, or want to discuss it with you and figure out why you're doing so. At which point (generic) you will have to defend your decision. Which is exactly what you should be doing any time you decide on which rules of the game you are going to play with. Own your decision and defend it.
The one thing you shouldn't do (and WotC is under no obligation to make it easier for you) is to just point to the PHB and say "Oh, well, you know, I don't WANT to make this game feel more difficult for all of you, but you know, these rules are right up here in the Player's Handbook and I'd like to give them a try... and because they're here in the Player's Handbook, then you know, all you players should be okay with giving them a try too. It's not me! No, no! WOTC put these rules here in the PHB! So blame them if you don't like it!"
Stop trying to make WotC be the "bad guy" because (generic) you are unwilling to actually talk with your players and tell them what you want to play.
Gorck
Prince of Dorkness
I've been contemplating having spells like Revivify, Resurrection, Reincarnation, and True Resurrection gave the recipient a level of Exhaustion. Being killed and returned to life seems like a harrowing experience.
Yea I do. Someone at wotc mentioned that the new dmg was going to have better guidance for new GMs & between things like the new barskin or the various newly codified actions there looks to be a shift towards furthering that with rules that serve the GM's needs in running the game
Wotc makes the game & its rules, it has nothing to do with willingness to "talk" with players... what are you talking about? Just like a casino it's absolutely imperative that they structure things in a way that doesn't give the gm/dealer an aura of improper behavior when simply attempting to full their role. The same would apply to the referees in any professional sport & the associated rule making body (fifa/nfl/ncaa/etc)
A Dungeon Master gets to wear many hats. As the
architect of a campaign, the DM creates adventures
by placing monsters, traps, and treasures for the other
players' characters (the adventurers) to discover. As
a storyteller, the DM helps the other players visualize
what's happening around them, improvising when the
adventurers do something or go somewhere unexpected.
As an actor, the DM plays the roles of the monsters and
supporting characters, breathing life into them. And as a
referee, the DM interprets the rules and decides when to
abide by them and when to change them.
architect of a campaign, the DM creates adventures
by placing monsters, traps, and treasures for the other
players' characters (the adventurers) to discover. As
a storyteller, the DM helps the other players visualize
what's happening around them, improvising when the
adventurers do something or go somewhere unexpected.
As an actor, the DM plays the roles of the monsters and
supporting characters, breathing life into them. And as a
referee, the DM interprets the rules and decides when to
abide by them and when to change them.
PART 3 : MASTER OF RULES
DUNGEONS & DRAGONS isn't a head-to-head competition
but it needs someone who is impartial yet involved in the
game to guarantee that everyone at the table plays by the
rules. As the player who creates the game world and the
adventures that take place within it, the DM is a natural
fit to take on the referee role.
As a referee, the DM acts as a mediator between the
rules and the players. A player tells the DM what he or
she wants to do, and the DM determines whether it is
successful or not, in some cases asking the player to
make a die roll to determine success. For example, if a
player wants his or her character to take a swing at an
ore, you say, "Make an attack roll" while looking up the
ore's Armor Class.
The rules don't account for every possible situation
that might arise during a typical D&D session. For
example, a player might want his or her character to
hurl a brazier full of hot coals into a monster's face.
How you determine the outcome of this action is up to
you. You might tell the player to make a Strength check,
while mentally setting the Difficulty Class (DC) at 15.
If the Strength check is successful, you then determine
how a face full of hot coals affects the monster. You
might decide that it deals ld4 fire damage and imposes
disadvantage on the monster's attack rolls until the end
of its next turn. You roll the damage die (or let the player
do it), and the game continues.
Sometimes mediating the rules means setting limits.
If a player tells you, "I want to run up and attack the
ore," but the character doesn't have enough movement
to reach the ore, you say, "It's too far away to move up
and still attack. What would you like to do instead?"
The player takes the information and comes up with a
different plan.
DUNGEONS & DRAGONS isn't a head-to-head competition
but it needs someone who is impartial yet involved in the
game to guarantee that everyone at the table plays by the
rules. As the player who creates the game world and the
adventures that take place within it, the DM is a natural
fit to take on the referee role.
As a referee, the DM acts as a mediator between the
rules and the players. A player tells the DM what he or
she wants to do, and the DM determines whether it is
successful or not, in some cases asking the player to
make a die roll to determine success. For example, if a
player wants his or her character to take a swing at an
ore, you say, "Make an attack roll" while looking up the
ore's Armor Class.
The rules don't account for every possible situation
that might arise during a typical D&D session. For
example, a player might want his or her character to
hurl a brazier full of hot coals into a monster's face.
How you determine the outcome of this action is up to
you. You might tell the player to make a Strength check,
while mentally setting the Difficulty Class (DC) at 15.
If the Strength check is successful, you then determine
how a face full of hot coals affects the monster. You
might decide that it deals ld4 fire damage and imposes
disadvantage on the monster's attack rolls until the end
of its next turn. You roll the damage die (or let the player
do it), and the game continues.
Sometimes mediating the rules means setting limits.
If a player tells you, "I want to run up and attack the
ore," but the character doesn't have enough movement
to reach the ore, you say, "It's too far away to move up
and still attack. What would you like to do instead?"
The player takes the information and comes up with a
different plan.
When the GM/referee is expected to do a thing, the rules need to be structured & presented in a way that allows them to do so without appearing to be shedding neutrality & becoming adversarial. In the case of an alternate death save mechanic making use of exhaustion 1-10 the fact that a party of players can be expected to encounter the risk or results frequently when it gets used is an additional reason why it should be in the phb. Something would be very wrong in basic book layouts if the players need to consult the dmg every time they are weighing the odds & cost/benefit of being low on hp or every time they find themselves suddenly below zero.
UngeheuerLich
Legend
I wish I had one dollar for each time you complain that OneDnD doesn't do it like LevelUp...
Micah Sweet
Level Up & OSR Enthusiast
To be fair, I complain when 5e doesn't do it like Level Up too.
I wonder if a few more sentences in the PHB about there being a bunch of optional rules the DM might pick for a given campaign would help with this part of the social interaction. (Apparently, for example, the wording around common and uncommon races in the PHB isn't "enough" for implying one shouldn't make and have their heart set on a character before even hearing the potential DMs pitch, for example. And of course, the potential DM shouldn't expect the current group of players to buy their pitch this time around.)
