Exhaustion

[Corinnguard]

I'd like exhaustion to happen regularly and certain healing spells to reduce it (either restoration or a new spell called Invigoration). As written, it should come from both mental and physical sources.

One spell for both physical and mental exhaustion? Or one spell for each, Invigoration for Physical, Clarity for Mental.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

One spell for both physical and mental exhaustion? Or one spell for each, Invigoration for Physical, Clarity for Mental.

No, sorry. I meant that a 1-10 scale condition called exhaustion (this playtest version) is both mental and physical (one system for both) and one spell (Invigoration) ought to correct a level or two.

 

[Micah Sweet]

No, sorry. I meant that a 1-10 scale condition called exhaustion (this playtest version) is both mental and physical (one system for both) and one spell (Invigoration) ought to correct a level or two.

Exhaustion is only worthwhile  because it can't be easily spelled away.

 

[Corinnguard]

Exhaustion is only worthwhile  because it can't be easily spelled away.

It would be worthwhile if you could use a spell to make others exhausted as part of a debuff.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

Exhaustion is only worthwhile  because it can't be easily spelled away.

I get what you're saying, but my thinking is to give it out quite a bit, and a spell would just give a party the ability to knock down the worst of it. I wouldn't want it to be "easily spelled away" (unless someone has a single level and they want to blow a spell slot to "top up" the party - something that should be rarely worth doing.) I would expect it to be something that's a resource-management decision.

 

[Stalker0]

ultimately I'm curious what works better in play, lowering offense with exhaustion or defense.

right now the playtest version is offense, no loss of defensive power, just offense. So a highly exhausted character isn't going to get gacked, but probably not going to be able to contribute to the fight very well either....which is boring, the worse thing you can do to a player. Previously they could try things like grappling but those are attack rolls now as well.

If you nerf defense, yes you create death spirals, but at least that's interesting. The player has to take a bigger risk to adventure, that to me is more "heroic" than being fully defended up and sit there ineffectually wailing on the enemy

 

[Vaalingrade]

'Interesting' is a wide net. Something you hate with an all-consuming passion is 'interesting', but probably not preferable to not having to deal with it.

 

[Aurel Guthrie]

I like that the new exhaustion rules will allow me to trade a long rest for more downtime activities such as training, crafting, researching, copying spells, etc, without getting severely punished for it.

 

[rules.mechanic]

I would prefer for AC to also be affected (simply "-1 penalty to any D20 test you make, or is made against you") and a hard limit on 1 exhaustion level recovered via long rest and 1 via other means per day (suggest limit spells to Hero's Feast, Heal, Regenerate, Life Transference) unless via Wish or Power Word: Heal. That's how we've played our over-exertion rules for 2 years now and it works really well.

 

[Horwath]

No, sorry. I meant that a 1-10 scale condition called exhaustion (this playtest version) is both mental and physical (one system for both) and one spell (Invigoration) ought to correct a level or two.

Lesser restoration seems like a good candidate to remove a level or two of exhaustion.

 

[AnotherGuy]

It would be worthwhile if you could use a spell to make others exhausted as part of a debuff.

A rewriting of Ray of Enfeeblement or perhaps time to introduce Ray of Exhaustion

 

[AnotherGuy]

So now I'm wondering, with this new 10 levels of exhaustion mechanic if WotC are going to finally do what they should have done so many years ago - tie one's limits for powers/spells/class features to the exhaustion mechanic. For example characters can push passed x times per day power but suffer y levels of exhaustion.
We already do this at our table.

EDIT: The only trick is, not to have it easily circumvented with spells.

 

[Branduil]

I'm not sure how I feel about them bringing back semi-regular negative modifiers to rolls after they constructed the entire advantage/disadvantage system to avoid that kind of fiddly (and easily forgotten) number crunching

 

[Corinnguard]

I'm not sure how I feel about them bringing back semi-regular negative modifiers to rolls after they constructed the entire advantage/disadvantage system to avoid that kind of fiddly (and easily forgotten) number crunching

Agreed. Advantage/Disadvantage keeps it simple. Bringing back negative modifiers for something like Exhaustion could bog down gameplay because the player and/or the DM will then have to figure out which positive and negative modifiers apply to the situation. Being fatigued in body, mind or both is a disadvantage for the player. But even a disadvantaged player is still given a chance at succeeding a check when both d20's end up rolling high anyway.

 

[gorice]

Advantage/disadvantage is nice, but it just isn't granular enough to be used for everything. Basic stuff like cover and buffing spells have used distinct modifiers from the beginning (a lot of spells also roll bonuses, which is unbelievably fiddly). Ideally, they should restrict advantage to specific kinds of circumstances, or shift to a different system.

 

[Horwath]

Agreed. Advantage/Disadvantage keeps it simple. Bringing back negative modifiers for something like Exhaustion could bog down gameplay because the player and/or the DM will then have to figure out which positive and negative modifiers apply to the situation. Being fatigued in body, mind or both is a disadvantage for the player. But even a disadvantaged player is still given a chance at succeeding a check when both d20's end up rolling high anyway.

that is why this exhaustion rules are good.
It's -1 to every d20 roll.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Agreed. Advantage/Disadvantage keeps it simple. Bringing back negative modifiers for something like Exhaustion could bog down gameplay because the player and/or the DM will then have to figure out which positive and negative modifiers apply to the situation. Being fatigued in body, mind or both is a disadvantage for the player. But even a disadvantaged player is still given a chance at succeeding a check when both d20's end up rolling high anyway.

I have no problem creating or remembering disadvantages for the player, as long as they make sense in the narrative.

 

[Corinnguard]

A rewriting of Ray of Enfeeblement or perhaps time to introduce Ray of Exhaustion

On D&D Wiki, there are actually two homebrewed spells that can cause Exhaustion. Inflict Exhaustion Inflict Exhaustion (5e Spell) - D&D Wiki and Waves of Exhaustion Waves of Exhaustion (5e Spell) - D&D Wiki

There is even an oil that can be coated on six pieces of equipment that can cause Exhaustion. Oil of Exhaustion Oil of Exhaustion (5e Equipment) - D&D Wiki

 

[Corinnguard]

And there is another spell that can actually reduce the effects of Exhaustion too. Remove Fatigue Remove Fatigue – 5th Edition SRD

Exhaustion – 5th Edition SRD This link provides alternate rules for Exhaustion.

 

[Branduil]

that is why this exhaustion rules are good.
It's -1 to every d20 roll.

It's about as simple as a negative modifier can be yes, but it will still inevitably face the problem of players forgetting to apply it. Maybe not a problem for online play, but at the table it's the kind of thing that's very easy to lose track of and forget to apply. And certainly it's hard for other players or the DM to notice if you've forgotten it or miscalculated.

This was always one of the big reasons for advantage/disadvantage, everyone can immediately see if you're applying it. It's true it lacks granularity, the question is if granularity is actually desirable for D&D.