Experience
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DM_Matt
First Post
I wound up doing a totally-different rebuild of Rana. Now she's more combat-oriented, which makes her a bit more different from Silvermoon than she previously was. There is a little bit of unusual stuff:
Nymph's Blood: As per Nymph's Kiss from BOED, but flavor change of coming from having a little fey blood instead of a relationship with a fey.
Militia: Fr Region Feat. Gives Martial Weapon Profs
Pretty much everything else is fine, noted clearly (in the case of crafter items), or unusual stuff Thanee is using too.
Nymph's Blood: As per Nymph's Kiss from BOED, but flavor change of coming from having a little fey blood instead of a relationship with a fey.
Militia: Fr Region Feat. Gives Martial Weapon Profs
Pretty much everything else is fine, noted clearly (in the case of crafter items), or unusual stuff Thanee is using too.
Thanee
First Post
Like 99% of my spellbook? *blink*
I think you made her a lot more like Silvermoon, compared to before, really.
Geez, I'm not Paxus, but I wouldn't allow some of the stuff in your equipment section (pretty much anything with "continuous" in there).
And two other things of note... The headband would cost slightly more (additional ability must be increased in cost) and the cost of the robe of change is based on nonprotective clothing, so must be higher for what you are using it for.
Bye
Thanee
I think you made her a lot more like Silvermoon, compared to before, really.
Geez, I'm not Paxus, but I wouldn't allow some of the stuff in your equipment section (pretty much anything with "continuous" in there).
And two other things of note... The headband would cost slightly more (additional ability must be increased in cost) and the cost of the robe of change is based on nonprotective clothing, so must be higher for what you are using it for.
Bye
Thanee
Paxus Asclepius
First Post
Nymph's Kiss, if balanced, is balanced based on the fact that it requires you to maintain the Exalted standards which are a prereq. An alteration is thus unbalancing. Any feat which grants ALL martial weapon proficiencies is clearly vastly superior to the base feat, which grants one martial weapon proficiency, and is thus unbalanced, especially as it seems entirely designed to circumvent the minimum level of the Spellsword and Eldritch Knight classes.
Where is the Thunderlance spell from?
You can't have boots of constant expeditious retreat; you must instead use the formula derived from boots of striding and springing, which appears to put a +10 enhancement bonus to move as costing 2000; thus, a +30 costs 18000 gp. Likewise, Kauper's Skittish Nerves cannot be made continuous, as it's a constant numerical bonus; I will tentatively price initiative bonuses at 200xbonus squared, making a +5 cost 5000.
Where is the Thunderlance spell from?
You can't have boots of constant expeditious retreat; you must instead use the formula derived from boots of striding and springing, which appears to put a +10 enhancement bonus to move as costing 2000; thus, a +30 costs 18000 gp. Likewise, Kauper's Skittish Nerves cannot be made continuous, as it's a constant numerical bonus; I will tentatively price initiative bonuses at 200xbonus squared, making a +5 cost 5000.
DM_Matt
First Post
Ok, I'll just kill the boots (or just buy some boots of SS). I'd argue that the NK thing still could be based on maintianing high standards, though. This character generally does. The feat is more balanced for this character than for others because the cha doesn't kelp her with spells any and she has no cha-based class skills and only a 12 in cha. Its basically to make her cha-skills not-THAT-bad instead of powerful.
Any yeah, militia is powerful. I'll do a rebuild, although losing that feat might result in losing 5th-level spells and thus possibly to drop the spellsword.
Thunderlance is in the FRCS. It summons a force weapon that can change sizes up to 20 feet that does 2d6 dmg and sets your str to 12+caster level for purposes of using it. It also lets you make a dispel check to dispel shield, mage armor, etc whenever you hit someone with it. its a 4th-level spell that lasts 1r/L.
Thanee: I used your spellbook as a base to save time. It doesn't mean I'd be casting the same stuff. What makes me more different is the Spellsword stuff and heavy armor...and I am going to edit the skills to have some crafts, alchemy, etc to go with the item creation feats to make crafting a big part of the character.
I'm noticing that Fighter/Mage characters are very hard to make, even with the EK "patch" to the system. There are just so many variables that have to be considered in order to make it work, not to mention to make builds that are as good as a Cleric or Druid designed to do the same thing. Hmmm, perhaps I will remake this character as a divine caster of some sort to save myself the headaches.
Any yeah, militia is powerful. I'll do a rebuild, although losing that feat might result in losing 5th-level spells and thus possibly to drop the spellsword.
Thunderlance is in the FRCS. It summons a force weapon that can change sizes up to 20 feet that does 2d6 dmg and sets your str to 12+caster level for purposes of using it. It also lets you make a dispel check to dispel shield, mage armor, etc whenever you hit someone with it. its a 4th-level spell that lasts 1r/L.
Thanee: I used your spellbook as a base to save time. It doesn't mean I'd be casting the same stuff. What makes me more different is the Spellsword stuff and heavy armor...and I am going to edit the skills to have some crafts, alchemy, etc to go with the item creation feats to make crafting a big part of the character.
I'm noticing that Fighter/Mage characters are very hard to make, even with the EK "patch" to the system. There are just so many variables that have to be considered in order to make it work, not to mention to make builds that are as good as a Cleric or Druid designed to do the same thing. Hmmm, perhaps I will remake this character as a divine caster of some sort to save myself the headaches.
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Thanee
First Post
@Matt/Paxus: Sorry, for being a bit annoying here, but there is so much wrong with that character, I really can't just sit back and watch. Hope you don't mind too much. 
No offense meant.
Yeah, you already mentioned, that you liked it and it was the reason for you to drop the sorcerer in favor of wizard, altho I really liked the sorceress Rana better, since she was more "unique". This one looks like you picked up half of Rana and half of Silvermoon and mixed that together.
I just think it's not such a great idea to simply copy the complete spellbook (for a character in the same game, otherwise there's no problem, of course), since the spellcasting is one of the more important and defining features of both our characters and they are extremely similar this way and will overlap to like 50% all the time. Everyone will have the standard spells and getting a few ideas from others is just natural, but that's a bit much, don't you think? I mean, it's not like I listed all good spells there and it would be impossible to find some more useful ones.
Some notes about the items:
Shield - 20,500gp would be an appropriate price (or 19,000gp, if you don't think the magic missile protection should be rated as a "different ability").
Initiative - I'd price that at 500 x bonus², since initiative is extremely important at the higher levels.
Expeditious Retreat - Well, there's a reason, they removed it in the 3.0->3.5 transition.
Enlarge Person - That's the only one, that might actually work this way. Still very good, but not too bad.
Armor of Change - As said above, I based the cost of the Robe on the usefulness, which is clearly higher here, so cost should be higher to reflect this (twice as much maybe? (plus, of course "different ability" multiplier)). For the cost you have now, you would only be able to change the appearance of the armor, but it would still look like a suit of full plate armor (which is what the robe also does, change appearance, but retain the general type).
Headband - You forgot the multiplier for multiple different abilities here.
Spellblade - You cannot craft this without spell turning, so you would at least need to pay someone to cast the spell for you (which isn't exactly cheap, since you need a 13th level caster to hang out with you for 6 days here). Just an example, in general you need to keep in mind, that there is more to item creation than feat + base price.
And to add something other than mere criticism...
The multiplier for multiple different abilities is only 1.5 not 2.
Other notes:
Militia is unavailable anyways, since it is a FR regional feat. These special feats obviously only apply to the FR, since they are simply better versions of existing feats with special FR-specific limits.
Nymphs Kiss is similar, it's worth as much as 3-4 feats roughly, but has some high limits (like the relationship, which needs to be maintained to keep the benefits (simply saying to have some fey blood removes this limitation), and of course the exalted stuff (explained at the beginning of the feat chapter in short)) to balance its usefulness.
Your skill points seem to be way off:
LVL: 12 levels with 3/lvl each (including human bonus) 15x3 (including 1st level bonus) = 45
INT: 15 (starting) 6x2 (lvl 1-3, including 1st level bonus) + 8x3 (lvl 4-11) + 1x4 (lvl 12) = 40
-> 85 total.
(Even with the +12 (or 15?) from NK added in, this would only be 100, not 129. Did you include the item INT bonus maybe? 3.5 removed those.
)
Also, you cannot put more than 15 ranks into a single skill.
Something else...
Crafting in general: I'm really unsure about that idea with the simple cost reduction and no XP cost. It just gives you tons of extra stuff (like 30k gp worth) for no real cost (well, the one (bonus) feat). There actually is no reason not to pick up Craft Wondrous Item then. Well, I surely prefer something like giving a couple extra XP (like 1,000) and if you want to craft more, you take a level hit. Just a thought.
I guess that post is long enough now... sorry again!
Bye
Thanee
No offense meant.DM_Matt said:
Yeah, you already mentioned, that you liked it and it was the reason for you to drop the sorcerer in favor of wizard, altho I really liked the sorceress Rana better, since she was more "unique". This one looks like you picked up half of Rana and half of Silvermoon and mixed that together.
I just think it's not such a great idea to simply copy the complete spellbook (for a character in the same game, otherwise there's no problem, of course), since the spellcasting is one of the more important and defining features of both our characters and they are extremely similar this way and will overlap to like 50% all the time. Everyone will have the standard spells and getting a few ideas from others is just natural, but that's a bit much, don't you think? I mean, it's not like I listed all good spells there and it would be impossible to find some more useful ones.
Some notes about the items:
Shield - 20,500gp would be an appropriate price (or 19,000gp, if you don't think the magic missile protection should be rated as a "different ability").
Initiative - I'd price that at 500 x bonus², since initiative is extremely important at the higher levels.
Expeditious Retreat - Well, there's a reason, they removed it in the 3.0->3.5 transition.
Enlarge Person - That's the only one, that might actually work this way. Still very good, but not too bad.
Armor of Change - As said above, I based the cost of the Robe on the usefulness, which is clearly higher here, so cost should be higher to reflect this (twice as much maybe? (plus, of course "different ability" multiplier)). For the cost you have now, you would only be able to change the appearance of the armor, but it would still look like a suit of full plate armor (which is what the robe also does, change appearance, but retain the general type).
Headband - You forgot the multiplier for multiple different abilities here.
Spellblade - You cannot craft this without spell turning, so you would at least need to pay someone to cast the spell for you (which isn't exactly cheap, since you need a 13th level caster to hang out with you for 6 days here). Just an example, in general you need to keep in mind, that there is more to item creation than feat + base price.
And to add something other than mere criticism...
The multiplier for multiple different abilities is only 1.5 not 2.
Other notes:
Militia is unavailable anyways, since it is a FR regional feat. These special feats obviously only apply to the FR, since they are simply better versions of existing feats with special FR-specific limits.
Nymphs Kiss is similar, it's worth as much as 3-4 feats roughly, but has some high limits (like the relationship, which needs to be maintained to keep the benefits (simply saying to have some fey blood removes this limitation), and of course the exalted stuff (explained at the beginning of the feat chapter in short)) to balance its usefulness.
Your skill points seem to be way off:
LVL: 12 levels with 3/lvl each (including human bonus) 15x3 (including 1st level bonus) = 45
INT: 15 (starting) 6x2 (lvl 1-3, including 1st level bonus) + 8x3 (lvl 4-11) + 1x4 (lvl 12) = 40
-> 85 total.
(Even with the +12 (or 15?) from NK added in, this would only be 100, not 129. Did you include the item INT bonus maybe? 3.5 removed those.
)Also, you cannot put more than 15 ranks into a single skill.
Something else...
Crafting in general: I'm really unsure about that idea with the simple cost reduction and no XP cost. It just gives you tons of extra stuff (like 30k gp worth) for no real cost (well, the one (bonus) feat). There actually is no reason not to pick up Craft Wondrous Item then.
Well, I surely prefer something like giving a couple extra XP (like 1,000) and if you want to craft more, you take a level hit. Just a thought.I guess that post is long enough now... sorry again!
Bye
Thanee
Paxus Asclepius
First Post
I'd missed some of these, so I'll add in what I ought to have last post. A constant item of +4 shield bonus to AC is worth 2500x4^2, or 40,000, with the cost of ignoring Magic Missile spells being reasonably priced at the given 4000 gp value. I'd assumed that the armor of change would only have the same abilities as the robe, altering appearance to similar garments (other heavy armors); anything that allowed it to actually alter its game characteristics would necessarily be more expensive. I missed the spellblade entirely; where is it from and what does it do?
I'm beginning to think that Thanee is right on the crafting; giving everyone an extra 1000 XP seems like a better way to go about it, so that is what I will do. Sorry for the extra work it may require.
I'm beginning to think that Thanee is right on the crafting; giving everyone an extra 1000 XP seems like a better way to go about it, so that is what I will do. Sorry for the extra work it may require.
Thanee
First Post
Player's Guide to Faerûn (or Magic of Faerûn for an older (and different!) version).Paxus Asclepius said:
It costs 6k to be added to a weapon as a feature (no "enhancement bonus", just a fixed price).
You have to choose one targeted spell, and the weapon makes you immune to it (absorbs the spell, if cast on you). Once such a spell is absorbed, you can (on your next turn) either let it drain away harmlessly or "cast" it on a new target as a free action.
Oh, and shield bonus should only be 1k x bonus², or maybe 1.5k x bonus² (since it stacks with other bonuses, but using the precedence of the enhancement bonuses on armor and shield, plus bracers of armor, 1k seems to be right), as it is equivalent to armor bonus (also doesn't help against touch attacks (other than incorporeal, but it does not add to a mundane shield's bonus to compensate (comparable with bracers of armor))), even though the table does not list it (surely an oversight, since shield bonus is new in 3.5).
Bye
Thanee
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thatdarncat
Overlord of Chat
Gah, lost thread found - why didn't anyone tell me the subscription table got nuked?
writing furiously, will be posting prelims tomorrow.
writing furiously, will be posting prelims tomorrow.
DM_Matt
First Post
I'm really moving more towards the idea of switching over to the divine side, since it lends itself so much more to being a caster-fighter. Previous incarnations of this character have had some religion, anyway, just not classes associated with them.
Would and exalted character work in this campaign?
Whats you opinion on the spells in BOED? I'm thinking going exaclted Cleric who alternates between buffing spells and burn (there are some good sanctified burn spells), maybe with a level or two of ranger.
What would you think of the Harper Paragon PRC from PGTF? It requires an organization, but it really will work just fine with the character's background, since she is supposed to be a government troubleshooter anyway.
Requirements: Sacred Vow (Intentionally-nearly-useless Cost feat. Grants +2 to diplomacy vs good NPCs) , Vow of Obedience (Intentionally-nearly-useless Cost feat. Grants +2 to diplomacy vs NPCswho already like the org you work for, and you are obligated to obey the org you work for) Diplomacy 8, Perform 5, Sense Motive 4, Survival 2, Favored Enemy
CS: Appraise, Bluff, Climb, Craft, Diplomacy, Disguise, Escape Artist, Gather Info, Hide, Jump, Knowledge, Listen, Move Silently, Perform, Pick Pockets, Profession, Sense Motive, Language, Survival, Swim, Tumble
Here is what it does:
d10, Good Ref, Bad Fort/Will, 4+Int, Cleric Bab, Full Caster Prog
1 Aura of Good (Useless...you detect as more good), Detect Evil (As Pally), Knowledge (As Bardic Knowledge, Check = Class level in this PRC + Int)
2 Favored Enemy(All Evil) Half Powered (+1 to the usual stuff) Does not grant improvements to previous FEs.
3 Celestial Spells (Can cast the spells with the celestial component/ Just a few from BoEd)
4 Exalted Companion -- You get a goody-goody creature like a unicorn as an animal companion
5 Favored Enemy
6 Smite Evil 1/day
7 --
8 Smite Evil 2/day
9 --
10 Favored Enemy, Smite Evil 3/day
Its strong in some ways, but it requires two useless feats, requires a cleric to take a ranger level, and gives you a horrible case of MAD -- a combat character with other abilities keyed additionally to all 3 mental scores.
Would and exalted character work in this campaign?
Whats you opinion on the spells in BOED? I'm thinking going exaclted Cleric who alternates between buffing spells and burn (there are some good sanctified burn spells), maybe with a level or two of ranger.
What would you think of the Harper Paragon PRC from PGTF? It requires an organization, but it really will work just fine with the character's background, since she is supposed to be a government troubleshooter anyway.
Requirements: Sacred Vow (Intentionally-nearly-useless Cost feat. Grants +2 to diplomacy vs good NPCs) , Vow of Obedience (Intentionally-nearly-useless Cost feat. Grants +2 to diplomacy vs NPCswho already like the org you work for, and you are obligated to obey the org you work for) Diplomacy 8, Perform 5, Sense Motive 4, Survival 2, Favored Enemy
CS: Appraise, Bluff, Climb, Craft, Diplomacy, Disguise, Escape Artist, Gather Info, Hide, Jump, Knowledge, Listen, Move Silently, Perform, Pick Pockets, Profession, Sense Motive, Language, Survival, Swim, Tumble
Here is what it does:
d10, Good Ref, Bad Fort/Will, 4+Int, Cleric Bab, Full Caster Prog
1 Aura of Good (Useless...you detect as more good), Detect Evil (As Pally), Knowledge (As Bardic Knowledge, Check = Class level in this PRC + Int)
2 Favored Enemy(All Evil) Half Powered (+1 to the usual stuff) Does not grant improvements to previous FEs.
3 Celestial Spells (Can cast the spells with the celestial component/ Just a few from BoEd)
4 Exalted Companion -- You get a goody-goody creature like a unicorn as an animal companion
5 Favored Enemy
6 Smite Evil 1/day
7 --
8 Smite Evil 2/day
9 --
10 Favored Enemy, Smite Evil 3/day
Its strong in some ways, but it requires two useless feats, requires a cleric to take a ranger level, and gives you a horrible case of MAD -- a combat character with other abilities keyed additionally to all 3 mental scores.
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