D&D (2024) Expert Classes - Rules Glossary

[UngainlyTitan]

Not in most fiction I've seen. Or in real life. Have you ever been told to watch a place? If so, have you actively searched for changes to your surroundings continuously? That's what you're asking for here. It's not Passive Perception.

What is the difference between looking around you and looking for changes in your surroundings continuously?
I mean if you are on watch and reading a newspaper then no check for you but if you are looking at the surroundings then you get the check. This is a return to pre 4e rules.

From the player perspective, if you advance at half movement you get to check and not at full move. I think it is a boon to DMs as now I do have to remember about passive perception values.

 

[Olrox17]

People have eyes and ears. Those don't turn off on their own. Unless somebody is actively distracted (or asleep), they should get a passive chance to notice something they aren't actually looking for. It happens to me all the time, and I would expect it would happen more if I was on guard duty in a warzone.
Now, I could see passive perception reduced to 8+modifier instead of 10+modifier, but it absolutely should exist.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

People have eyes and ears. Those don't turn off on their own. Unless somebody is actively distracted (or asleep), they should get a passive chance to notice something they aren't actually looking for. It happens to me all the time, and I would expect it would happen more if I was on guard duty in a warzone.
Now, I could see passive perception reduced to 8+modifier instead of 10+modifier, but it absolutely should exist.

How is that changed by giving them a perception roll? The way it now works (with the UA) is the PC makes a stealth check against a DC of 15. If they fail they are not hidden and the NPC sees them automatically. No need for passive perception.
If they succeed they are hidden. In fact, rereading the hidden condition it is now impossible to sneak. You need heavy obscuration or total cover to remain hidden.

 

[Olrox17]

How is that changed by giving them a perception roll? The way it now works (with the UA) is the PC makes a stealth check against a DC of 15. If they fail they are not hidden and the NPC sees them automatically. No need for passive perception.
If they succeed they are hidden. In fact, rereading the hidden condition it is now impossible to sneak. You need heavy obscuration or total cover to remain hidden.

That rule, as written, is ridiculous. Out of combat, you could attempt the DC 15 check as many times as you want until you succeed. Even an heavily armored PC with 8 dex will make a DC 15 after a few failed tries.
A correction: you don't need total cover to maintain the hidden status, just regular cover (or heavy obscurement, as you said). So it's not impossibile, just terrain dependent. Which is good.

 

[tetrasodium]

That rule, as written, is ridiculous. Out of combat, you could attempt the DC 15 check as many times as you want until you succeed. Even an heavily armored PC with 8 dex will make a DC 15 after a few failed tries.
A correction: you don't need total cover to maintain the hidden status, just regular cover (or heavy obscurement, as you said). So it's not impossibile, just terrain dependent. Which is good.

Why is the ability for an 8 dex PC in platemail to spend a long time successfully hiding in a location where they intend to remain hidden to simply wait for an ambush hide from a patrol or whatever? As soon as they start moving all of that effort goes out the window as the various required conditions come into play

 

[Olrox17]

Why is the ability for an 8 dex PC in platemail to spend a long time successfully hiding in a location where they intend to remain hidden to simply wait for an ambush hide from a patrol or whatever? As soon as they start moving all of that effort goes out the window as the various required conditions come into play

I have to ask you to elaborate on that. Why would the effort go out of the window as soon they move? As long as cover or obscurement is maintained, the hidden condition remains. You could easily creep on an enemy camp, maintaining the hidden status among the foliage and trees (for example).

 

[tetrasodium]

I have to ask you to elaborate on that. Why would the effort go out of the window as soon they move? As long as cover or obscurement is maintained, the hidden condition remains. You could easily creep on an enemy camp, maintaining the hidden status among the foliage and trees (for example).

Look at the hidden condition immediately above the hide action.

• "Ending the Condition. The Condition ends on you immediately after any of the following occurrences: you make a sound louder than a whisper, an enemy finds you, you make an Attack Roll, you cast a Spell with a verbal component, or you aren’t Heavily Obscured or behind any Cover."

Once that 8 dex platemail wearing PC stops being hidden where they are & starts moving elsewhere or starts doing anything that could cross any of those conditions then they are no longer able to benefit from some or all of the prep they did back at the dungeon entrance or whatever

 

[Olrox17]

Look at the hidden condition immediately above the hide action.

• "Ending the Condition. The Condition ends on you immediately after any of the following occurrences: you make a sound louder than a whisper, an enemy finds you, you make an Attack Roll, you cast a Spell with a verbal component, or you aren’t Heavily Obscured or behind any Cover."

Once that 8 dex platemail wearing PC stops being hidden where they are & starts moving elsewhere or starts doing anything that could cross any of those conditions then they are no longer able to benefit from some or all of the prep they did back at the dungeon entrance or whatever

Well, yes. If that 8 dex plate wearer keeps cover or concealment and doesn't speak, they can creep (alongside the rest of the party) in range of their enemies, roll initiative with advantage, and fire their first salvo of attacks (bows, spells, javelins) with advantage. Getting a "surprise round" has never been so brain dead easy.

 

[fluffybunbunkittens]

Have you ever been told to watch a place? If so, have you actively searched for changes to your surroundings continuously? That's what you're asking for here. It's not Passive Perception.

I shouldn't have to keep shouting I AM BEING ALERT GM I AM LOOKING AROUND for my paranoid scout character to be aware of their surroundings.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

Well, yes. If that 8 dex plate wearer keeps cover or concealment and doesn't speak, they can creep (alongside the rest of the party) in range of their enemies, roll initiative with advantage, and fire their first salvo of attacks (bows, spells, javelins) with advantage. Getting a "surprise round" has never been so brain dead easy.

While I do admit that we overestimate the degree that armour makes noise.
And the environment is generally not taken into account enough for hearing (wind in particular). However there are two issues with your position. Making noise while moveing and covering clear ground.

Under the current rules it is impossible to cover clear ground. The movie trope of sneaking up on the sentry is impossible under the UA as the sentry will spot you once you are close enough to be no longer be obscured.