D&D 5E Exploits, Martial Cantrips

[Steampunkette]

So making Exploits and Extra Attack work together is good, in -theory-.

But what you're creating by having the exploits level up with the character is a level 20 Fighter who can throw 4 Cantrips out in a single action. Each dealing 5d10 damage to a primary target and other benefits.

Cleave, for example, would do 20d10 to your primary target and, essentially, 10d10 to your secondary target. Usable an infinite number of times per day. And as a bonus action strike them with the haft of your halberd for another d4 as an insult.

So it might be better to make them replace your entire attack action per-cast, at the scaling you've got going on, here. Or, if you want to give players multiple attacks, still, have the exploit damage scaling a finite value split among attacks. So if I make 4 Exploit Attacks at 20th level there's only a total of 5W damage that I get to split between those 4 attacks. One gets 2W damage, the rest I'm just using for the special secondary functions.

 

[Stormonu]

I think to original poster has stated that the idea was that you couldn’t use more than one exploit per turn in the case of multiple attacks. At least, that would be the smart thing to do.

An issue with replacing multiple attacks is that while you can do a fair amount with one hit, if you miss with that one attack, you’d end up doing nothing at all.

 

[cbwjm]

The only thing that bothers somewhat about these is the [W]. It doesn’t incentive taking anything less than the biggest weapon you can handle. I’d like to see exploits that take the weapon’s damage die as a factor - namely for fighters.

How do you mean by take the damage die as a factor? Something like increase by 1 die so that a greatsword increases by 1d6 and a greataxe by 1d12 or do you mean increase the die size so that a longsword using an exploit at 5th level deals a d10 or d12 if used with two hands?

I find that most players will tend to take the biggest weapon they can anyway with regard to their build or with magic items found, so if using a shield a fighter takes a longsword, if using no shield it will be a heavy weapon though they might give that up if they find a magic longsword.

 

[cbwjm]

So making Exploits and Extra Attack work together is good, in -theory-.

But what you're creating by having the exploits level up with the character is a level 20 Fighter who can throw 4 Cantrips out in a single action. Each dealing 5d10 damage to a primary target and other benefits.

Cleave, for example, would do 20d10 to your primary target and, essentially, 10d10 to your secondary target. Usable an infinite number of times per day. And as a bonus action strike them with the haft of your halberd for another d4 as an insult.

So it might be better to make them replace your entire attack action per-cast, at the scaling you've got going on, here. Or, if you want to give players multiple attacks, still, have the exploit damage scaling a finite value split among attacks. So if I make 4 Exploit Attacks at 20th level there's only a total of 5W damage that I get to split between those 4 attacks. One gets 2W damage, the rest I'm just using for the special secondary functions.

Sorry, I may not have been clear. What I meant with keeping extra attack is that extra attack is still an option to use instead of an exploit. When you use an exploit, it uses your action, it still counts as an attack so if you are dual-wielding, you can make a bonus action attack (not an exploit) and you add other effects to an exploit that would apply to a regular attack (like divine strike or improved smite), you can't make use of extra attack though. Essentially, extra attack would be the equivalent of an exploit that every martial class gets so you'd make the choice of using cleave, feather the target, or extra attack.

 

[Stormonu]

How do you mean by take the damage die as a factor? Something like increase by 1 die so that a greatsword increases by 1d6 and a greataxe by 1d12 or do you mean increase the die size so that a longsword using an exploit at 5th level deals a d10 or d12 if used with two hands?

I find that most players will tend to take the biggest weapon they can anyway with regard to their build or with magic items found, so if using a shield a fighter takes a longsword, if using no shield it will be a heavy weapon though they might give that up if they find a magic longsword.

As in, there would be no reason to take a dagger [1d4], instead of a greataxe [1d12]. Everyone might as well be running around with greataxes and forget any other weapon exists. Everyone would deride the player who decided to be a "knife fighter" instead of choosing a bigger weapon. (Yeah, I know, some of that happens now, but these exploits would be chance to somehow change that).

 

[cbwjm]

As in, there would be no reason to take a dagger [1d4], instead of a greataxe [1d12]. Everyone might as well be running around with greataxes and forget any other weapon exists. Everyone would deride the player who decided to be a "knife fighter" instead of choosing a bigger weapon. (Yeah, I know, some of that happens now, but these exploits would be chance to somehow change that).

I think for that, I would create exploits that make use of specific weapon attributes, like finesse, to make some exploits more valuable for different types of weapons. I have some already that require heavy weapons, others require ranged weapons or thrown weapons. I could see some using finesse or versatile specifically.