Extra Spell Feat from Complete Arcane

[Scion]

The cleric already has a very impressive array of spells, a good number of which are equivalent or better than the arcane version anyway. I am unsure what staple spell would make this feat overpowered in their hands

Especially with, as you said, the domains giving out so many anyway.

As I have seen lots of ideas with the psionic version floating around I have a bit of experience with how those sort of things go. Spending a feat for a single spell seems like a pretty high cost. Just making it worthwhile, from a power point of view since it can always be worthwhile in flavor, might be difficult.

I'd have no problem with a sorc picking up some random cure XXX spell, or a wizard running around with righteous might.

In most cases it would be sortof equivalent to spending a feat instead of paying some exp now and then to cast it anyway (not the greatest of examples, but it helps show the point).

 

[Lord Pendragon]

Can anyone come up with a few horrible abuses?

A sorcerer with Heal strikes me as a significantly powerful application of the "any spell" interpretation of the feat. I'm not sure if it's broken powerful, though. As I said oh so many posts ago, I probably wouldn't have a problem with ruling it that way. I'm just cognizant that I'd be making a House Rule.

 

[Scion]

By spending his 15th or 18th level feat?

I dont think that is even all that abusive, it actually sounds like an interesting use (heal, while very strong, is not as uber as it used to be).

Then again, I have made up some very interesting healing spells for arcane casters in my games. They tend to be dangerous and/or turn damage into subdual, but they are still healing. So, maybe that biases me a bit far towards not thinking it is a big deal to spend a feat on a healing spell to make it a bit better and lower level than they would have otherwise had a chance at.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

By spending his 15th or 18th level feat?

I dont think that is even all that abusive, it actually sounds like an interesting use (heal, while very strong, is not as uber as it used to be).

It's still uber enough for PCs. At 15th-level, 150 hp is going to fully heal most PCs, save perhaps for the barbarian or fighter who rolled really well. Most of its weakening in 3.5 is for lower-level casters (who don't get the full effect anymore) and hp juggernaut monsters (no more 300+ hp dragon healing himself to full in 1 action.) It's still virtually unchanged for standard PCs.

So at 15th-level--coincidentally the time when Heal caps out its effect--a sorcerer can spend a feat to learn Heal. In a stroke, he's made himself arguably as good a healer as the cleric, perhaps better, since he can spontaneously cast Heal using any of his 5th+ level slots. And he's got a lot of 5th+ level slots.

I'd have to see how it played out in a game to really make a fair judgment on this one, but my gut tells me it intrudes on the cleric's bailiwick too much for a game that actually has a cleric PC. In a game without a cleric, it's not so much a problem. In fact, I might encourage it, to allow the party to access healing without having to insert a cleric NPC.

So, maybe that biases me a bit far towards not thinking it is a big deal to spend a feat on a healing spell to make it a bit better and lower level than they would have otherwise had a chance at.

I do think it's a big deal. Whether or not it's too big a deal, I'm not so certain.

 

[Thanee]

From a pure power perspective I do not think it would be too powerful to allow.

From a flavor perspective it would be completely silly with no requirements at all.

Could as well remove the arcane/divine split then...

Now, I know, that some people would actually prefer it that way, but it's just not how the system is set up, and rules have to follow that system not a hypothetic one.

Bye
Thanee

 

[green slime]

So at 15th-level--coincidentally the time when Heal caps out its effect--a sorcerer can spend a feat to learn Heal. In a stroke, he's made himself arguably as good a healer as the cleric, perhaps better, since he can spontaneously cast Heal using any of his 5th+ level slots. And he's got a lot of 5th+ level slots.

Heal is a 6th level spell. So he won't be using it with his 5th level spell slots.

He can cast 10 + (charisma) spells per day that are 6th level or above. He knows 3 6th, 2 7th, and heal (apparently).

The cleric can cast 6 + (wisdom) spells per day that are 6th level or above, excluding domain spells.

So yes, he could out-heal the cleric. But then again, it'd be the only thing he'll be doing.

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

Well, also consider that once he knows the spell, a sorcerer can use spell trigger items to cast it. So if he's worried about using all his spell slots to cast heal all day, just make the rest of the party chip in to buy or make a staff of heal. A staff made with only that one spell will cost about 60,000 gp, or about half that if the sorcerer can make his own staves. At 15th level, that's not much for a party to ensure that they'll stay alive without a cleric.

 

[Scion]

Of course, if they have anyone with use magic device in the party they could do the same thing without someone needing to spend a feat

 

[The Madhatter]

I'd have to see how it played out in a game to really make a fair judgment on this one, but my gut tells me it intrudes on the cleric's bailiwick too much for a game that actually has a cleric PC. In a game without a cleric, it's not so much a problem. In fact, I might encourage it, to allow the party to access healing without having to insert a cleric NPC.

Really? IMC we've seen the cleric come closer to the arcanist's role than vice versa. It's never been much of a problem though. We did have a Wizard with a minor healing spell and some UMD ranks, but he never came close to being the Trauma Team that our clerics were. My DM (and another poster here) did ask how it would work for clerics, and I don't recall any restrictions listed in the feat. As mentioned before clerics get to choose from a ton of domains(depending on the campaign of course) and a good portion of those spells are mage spells. They could cherry pick some arcane faves, but they would be spending a feat. I'm still convinced the feat allows you to cross class lists, but as in all things, apply rule 0.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

Really? IMC we've seen the cleric come closer to the arcanist's role than vice versa. It's never been much of a problem though.

Have you been playing with a sorcerer that can cast Heal? Because that was the point of my comment. Not a generalization, a comment on a specific scenario.

I'm still convinced the feat allows you to cross class lists, but as in all things, apply rule 0.

I'm still convinced the feat doesn't allow you to cross class lists at all, but as in all things, apply rule 0.