Extra Spell Feat from Complete Arcane

[The Madhatter]

Have you been playing with a sorcerer that can cast Heal? Because that was the point of my comment. Not a generalization, a comment on a specific scenario.

No I haven't but I'm not entirely sure that's a game breaker unless you are running an undead heavy campaign. Heal's also a touch spell, and sorcerers have d4 HD (mostly).

I'm still convinced the feat doesn't allow you to cross class lists at all, but as in all things, apply rule 0.

I will keep this in mind should I ever sit at your table.

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

Of course, if they have anyone with use magic device in the party they could do the same thing without someone needing to spend a feat

True, but then you need a whole extra character in addition to the sorcerer, not just an extra feat. I think it's probably good that an arcanist or rogue can cover for a lack of cleric, but that's IMHO. But the issue here seems to be whether an arcanist should be able to cover for the cleric, given that a rogue already can.

I'm in favour of converting the Transfer Wounds series of spells from Monte Cook's Arcana Unearthed into D&D spells to allow for Arcane healing that's sufficiently different from divine healing to preserve the arcane/divine paradigms. To me, it's not that arcanists shouldn't be able to heal, they should just go about accomplishing it differently.

 

[Scion]

True, but then you need a whole extra character in addition to the sorcerer, not just an extra feat.

Whole extra character +feat? Nah, just need someone with one or the other, not both

I was just saying that one person could already do it without the need of the feat or whatever, that is all. So it isnt exactly a huge change as far as the staff goes.

 

[Thanee]

I'm still convinced the feat allows you to cross class lists, but as in all things, apply rule 0.

I'm not only convinced, I know it doesn't allow this.

But as I said above, it wouldn't be much of a problem to allow it (just with the "original D&D" flavor between arcane and divine magic, which not everyone likes, anyways).

Bye
Thanee

 

[ARandomGod]

Personally, without some major abuse, I would have no problem with someone useing this feat to gain access to any spell from any list that meets the criteria and cast it as they would normally cast any other spell that they knew.

I'd let it work just like the psionic version and I doubt it would cause anything much for problems, if it did then I'd look it over, but likely not change the ability to gain any spell.

Can anyone come up with a few horrible abuses?

Well,to be honest, I'd allow a sorc or wizard to simply research a healing type spell if they really wanted it, I wouldn't make it a feat. For that matter, if we didn't have a clerical type in the group, I'd have the arcanist FIND healing arcane spells in spellbook treasure.

Of course, I'd have to have some good research and/or story reason to just switch over *heal*, and a feat might convince me that the higher powered spell is paid for... I'd much prefer spells along the lines of transfer wounds, lesser powered pure healing spells, and spells that convert 1 lethal HP into 2 nonlethal HP's of damage.

The one time we wanted an arcane healer I made up those latter two spells, both the 1/2 powered clerical version and the lethal to subdual. Both spells were less powerful, but together they equalled a cleric.... well, almost. And with a different enough flavor.

I know another campaign wherein the GM siply ruled that temp HP's first heal up any damage as a cure spell would, and then the rest are normal temp HP's. That wasn't really overpowered either.

So I personally don't see any problem power wise with that feat, other than it seems almost a waste of a feat if'n you're not a sorc.

 

[Thanee]

Well,to be honest, I'd allow a sorc or wizard to simply research a healing type spell if they really wanted it, I wouldn't make it a feat.

That's absolutely within the limits set by the DMG... they just should be weaker than the cleric's cure spells in general.

Bye
Thanee

 

[ARandomGod]

That's absolutely within the limits set by the DMG... they just should be weaker than the cleric's cure spells in general.

Bye
Thanee

Of coures. That's why I didn't bring it up until someone asked about potential horrible abuses.

 

[The Madhatter]

Follow-Up Question

Here's a question for the folks that say the feat allows arcanists to pick a spell from a divine spell list: How would it work?:
Did the Wizard find some way to channel divine power through arcane means or did he stumble upon some ancient formulae for recreating divine effects? Is it a true arcane spell that just mimics a divine spell, much like how domain spells mimic arcane spells? The Arcane Disciple feat definitely has deific involvement(alignment restriction, patron deity's domain.) but would there need to be any deity's involvment with Extra Spell if you used it to take an Arcane spell?

 

[Thanee]

If you want to house rule it that way, it's probably the least troublesome to just allow the picked spell as a regular arcane spell. However, then you should also be able to research it normally...

Otherwise you should need Wisdom to cast it (see Arcane Disciple for details), etc.

Bye
Thanee

 

[DM_Matt]

Rather than spending a feat at 15th level to cast Heal, you could just get Leadership and a 13th-level cleric who can heal, gets additional actions, and does a whole lot more. Isn't using leadership as a benchmark fun?! Balance for everything!