Extrapolate: What do you think is going to be in "Complete Divine"

[Gez]

No, it don't mention new Greyhawk deities. It mention new gods for the D&D pantheons.

Little check:

Greyhawk Pantheon:
Al'Akbar
Allitur
Atroa
Beltar
Beory
Berei
Bleredd
Boccob
Bralm
Celestian
Cyndor
Dalt
Delleb
Ehlonna
Erythnul
Fharlanghn
Fortubo
Geshtai
Heironeous
Hextor
Incabulos
Istus
Iuz
Jascar
Joramy
Kord
Kurell
Lendor
Lirr
Llerg
Lydia
Mayaheine
Merikka
Mouqol
Myhriss
Nerull
Norebo
Obad-Hai
Olidammara
Osprem
Pelor
Phaulkon
Pholtus
Phyton
Procan
Pyremius
Ralishaz
Rao
Raxivort
Rudd
Sehanine Moonbow
Sotillion
St. Cuthbert
Syrul
Telchur
Tharizdun
Trithereon
Ulaa
Vatun
Vecna
Velnius
Wastri
Wee Jas
Wenta
Xan Yae
Xerbo
Ye'Cind
Zagyg
Zilchus
Zodal
Zuoken


Vile Pantheon:
Karaan
The Patient One
Rallaster
Scahrossar
The Xammux
Yeathan

The Exalted Pantheon:
Ayailla
Chaav
Estanna
Lastai
Phieran
Valarian

The Warrior Pantheon:
Altua
Halmyr
Konkresh
Lyris
Nadiresh
Sulerain
Syreth
Typhos
Valkar



Compare and contrast. What are the odds the new gods introduced are those from Greyhawk? A snowball's chance in the Elemental Plane of Fire, I'd say.



And there are three Darkness domains.
Forgotten Realms / Deities & Demigods / Vile Darkness
1: obscuring mist / obscuring mist / darkvision
2: blindness/deafness / blindness / darkbolt (BOVD)
3: blacklight / blacklight / deeper darkness
4: armor of darkness / armor of darkness / damning darkness
5: darkbolt (FRCS)/ summon monster 5 (1d3 shadows) / Evard's black tentacles
6: prying eyes / prying eyes / wall of force
7: nightmare / nightmare / shadow walk
8: power word, blind / power word, blind / utterdark
9: power word, kill / power word, kill / screen

And of course, the two darkbolt spells are not the same.

Strangely, the granted power has stayed consistant: the blind-fight feat.

 

[Nightfall]

Agreed Gez. But I can hope for Orcus at least!

 

[Omand]

Gez,

I just checked on the thread listing the catalogue info for "Complete Divine" and it reads:

"There is a rundown of new gods in the D&D pantheon,"

See Post #63 of the following:

http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=70790&page=3

You could well be correct about it being generic gods, but the terms D&D Pantheon in the past have been used to refer to the Greyhawk Pantheon, as the default for WotC sources that do not refer to a specific setting. I could see the "rundown" being more complete information on Greyhawk Gods not given any detail in the PHB. Of course, I might be totally off base.


Thanks for the heads up on the Darkness domain. I do not play in Forgotten Realms, so I was not aware of the third variant on the theme. I have yet to decide which version of it that I prefer. "Darkbolt" is a cool spell in BoVD, as is "Deeper Darkness", but I like "Blacklight" and "Armour of Darkness" from DDG as well. Maybe we will see a fourth variation on the theme.

Only about 5 months to go to find out.

Cheers

[edited for mixed up spell names]

 

[Gez]

I think "new" means new.

Personally, I would prefer them to detail the whole GH pantheon, rather than making up new deities that are useless for people playing in GH, for people playing in FR, for people playing in other published settings (Dragonlance, Ravenloft, Kalamar, Scarred Lands, and so on), and for people playing in their already-detailed homebrews. Who cares about Proutlada, goddess of clerics who worship gods and stuff? Most of these new deities are totally blah -- "Look, a LE god of tyranny who is not Hextor (or Bane, Chardun, etc.)! And a CE god of slaughter who is not Erythnul (or Cyric, Vangal, etc.)! What tremendous imagination! These sure are niche that weren't filled enough!" -- and I would prefer to see them detail gods that will be useful to at least one part of the gamers.

 

[pawsplay]

Greater Improved Turning, spontaneous divine caster (with or without winged dwarves), a couple of metamagics relating to good/evil/law/chaos/holy/unholy/sacred etc., Divine Champion, a few artifacts related to various deities, more gods no one will use, a few races with divine/outsider heritage, Vestments of +2 to Turn Undead, options for Monks in a campaign with a clerical focus

Etc.

But also:

Religious organizations and how they operate

Praying for help

The relationship between Clerics and deities, options and suggestions presented (I hope, I hope)

Expanded guidelines for religious strictures and atonement, also, "Atonement and the CN barbarian/rogue, Alignments and Gods in Today's World."

We've had Tactical Feats. How about some Rites?

Items and effects related to Neutral Clerics.

Discussions of clergy, healing magic, and divine favor in the life of D&D characters.

 

[Nightfall]

I think "new" means new.

Personally, I would prefer them to detail the whole GH pantheon, rather than making up new deities that are useless for people playing in GH, for people playing in FR, for people playing in other published settings (Dragonlance, Ravenloft, Kalamar, Scarred Lands, and so on), and for people playing in their already-detailed homebrews. Who cares about Proutlada, goddess of clerics who worship gods and stuff? Most of these new deities are totally blah -- "Look, a LE god of tyranny who is not Hextor (or Bane, Chardun, etc.)! And a CE god of slaughter who is not Erythnul (or Cyric, Vangal, etc.)! What tremendous imagination! These sure are niche that weren't filled enough!" -- and I would prefer to see them detail gods that will be useful to at least one part of the gamers.

True. But it would be nice if they also used the Arch Devils and Demon Princes!

 

[Arnwyn]

Don't need to. Hallowed Mage from BoHM is (in my opinion) balanced and more fun for cleric/wizard PCs.

I'm shocked anyone would even suggest this. That one PrC nearly marred the entire book for me. "More fun for... PCs" indeed.

 

[AFGNCAAP]

Well, here's my fair share of guesswork:

Core Classes:
A shaman class (close to OA), a OA-shugenja-like class (i.e., spontaneous divine magic user; maybe a healer), possibly a "bard" (0-6 spell level) class--maybe some sort of divine spellcaster/monk combo (not necessarily sohei). Maybe even a sort of mystic class (ala Dragonlance). Heck, who knows--maybe even some sort of "scholarly monk" class.

Also, maybe a 20-level version of the Blackguard. Wouldn't be surprised if the AL requirements become stricter (either LE, or most likely, CE). Possibly variant rules for "paladins" of other alignments; or at least "paladins" with less strict AL requirements (i.e., having an "any Good AL" paladin, an "any Evil" 20-level blackguard, and possibly an "any Lawful," "any Chaotic," and "any Neutral" versions of the paladin class).

PrCs:
Most likely a reworking of a lot of familiar PrCs from DotF & MotW. Some divine PrCs from FRCS & OA.

Divine Spells/Domains/Deities:
Probalby a few new domains, as well as many domains scattered amongst the various supplements out there (perhaps setting a standard set/variety for the domains). Spells for these domains, and a few others.

As for deities, I'm guessing that a lot (or a good few) of the core/Greyhawk deities may be fleshed out--Iuz, Rao, Celestian, Tritherion, etc. Possibly even quasi-deties of Greyhawk, & other nonhuman deities (currently only in FRCS material, IIRC).

Other Stuff:
Porobably a few new items, feats, & uses for skills.

Possibly some more divine feats.

Possibly spiritual feats (ala Vow of Silence, Vow of chastity, etc.) based on the dogmatic demands upon the clergy.

Maybe some notes on alternate faith systems: animism (which was touched in OA); monotheism (touched in Deities & Demigods); duotheism; Mystery Cults; and possibly even philosophies (i.e., good, evil, order, chaos, honor, enlightenment, etc.).

And, if we're good enough ( ), maybe even rules for allowing clerics to use axiomatic &/or anarchic energy (or axiomatic/anarchic energy planes, ala the positive/negative planes).

Just my batch of wild guesses.

 

[Olive]

And, if we're good enough ( ), maybe even rules for allowing clerics to use axiomatic &/or anarchic energy (or axiomatic/anarchic energy planes, ala the positive/negative planes).

Don't you do this already?

Seriously tho, I'd love for the rules to reflect that lawful neutral is an alignment in it's own right, not just not quite good enough to be lawful good. My lawful Neutral god doesn't grant celestial creatues, he grants axiomatic ones. I'd also like WotC to demonstrate that the lawful/chaotic axis is as impostant as the good/evil one. My CG goddess is just as committed to chaos as she is to goodness, and allows her clerics to summon anarchic as well as celetial creatures.

 

[Nightfall]

I'm shocked anyone would even suggest this. That one PrC nearly marred the entire book for me. "More fun for... PCs" indeed.

Why? Hallowed Mage is a great PC class. So what if you don't get ALL the cleric and wizard/sorcerer spells? The other benefits FAR out weight the crappiness and general "ugh" factor of a Mystic Theurge IMO.